Author Topic: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture.  (Read 3837 times)
Medved
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 11:30:48 AM » Author: Medved
Is the capacitor that was included and I installed influence the lamp output in any way? Do I need to use the included capacitor?
Thanks.

According to the wiring diagram, it is just a power factor correction on the mains input. So no influence at all.
Such capacitor may be required as a high current high frequency mains bypass path with some ignitors (the European style high energy semiparallel like SN57 from Philips; without such capacitor the output pulse gets way smaller than intended, so less reliable ignition), but I've never seen such concept on any 120V ballast. And with MV the ignitor is disconnected anyway (or I hope so)...
And I hope the ballast you use is a "35/39W MH" type, not the "50W MH". The later will overdrive the 50W MV lamp.
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Ash
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #16 on: July 17, 2016, 02:56:58 PM » Author: Ash
From there you can drop the output by adding 150W/100W/70W/.. HPS choke in series with the 120V input to the ballast, pick the one that gets the brightness you want
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bucket175mv
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #17 on: July 21, 2016, 06:59:51 AM » Author: bucket175mv
Is the capacitor that was included and I installed influence the lamp output in any way? Do I need to use the included capacitor?
Thanks.

According to the wiring diagram, it is just a power factor correction on the mains input. So no influence at all.
Such capacitor may be required as a high current high frequency mains bypass path with some ignitors (the European style high energy semiparallel like SN57 from Philips; without such capacitor the output pulse gets way smaller than intended, so less reliable ignition), but I've never seen such concept on any 120V ballast. And with MV the ignitor is disconnected anyway (or I hope so)...
And I hope the ballast you use is a "35/39W MH" type, not the "50W MH". The later will overdrive the 50W MV lamp.

Hi there.

Yes the igniter has been removed and this is a 35/39 watt MH ballast, not a 50 watt version.
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bucket175mv
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #18 on: July 21, 2016, 07:03:53 AM » Author: bucket175mv
From there you can drop the output by adding 150W/100W/70W/.. HPS choke in series with the 120V input to the ballast, pick the one that gets the brightness you want
Hi there. I'm not quite sure what a high pressure sodium "choke" is exactly. Could you explain. Thanks :)
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Medved
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #19 on: July 21, 2016, 02:14:31 PM » Author: Medved
From there you can drop the output by adding 150W/100W/70W/.. HPS choke in series with the 120V input to the ballast, pick the one that gets the brightness you want
Hi there. I'm not quite sure what a high pressure sodium "choke" is exactly. Could you explain. Thanks :)

HPS series reactor type ballast for one of these wattages. These are just a coil on a core, just with a tap for the ignitor. If you left the ignitor tap unconnected, you have just a choke, inductance according to the wattage.
In the circuit it is supposed to effectively increase the ballasting impedance of the autotransformer, so reduce the lamp current.
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Lumex120
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 09:57:32 AM » Author: Lumex120
Are you sure that you weren't using a dimmed out 100w lamp that makes the 50w lamp appear abnormally bright? Also, was this ballast new from a retailer? It might be defective and still under warranty.
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bucket175mv
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #21 on: August 01, 2016, 07:10:04 AM » Author: bucket175mv
Are you sure that you weren't using a dimmed out 100w lamp that makes the 50w lamp appear abnormally bright? Also, was this ballast new from a retailer? It might be defective and still under warranty.

I was in fact using an A23 GE 100w MV lamp that was slightly dim but I also tried a new 100/125 watt MV bulb that came with these Regent fixtures new and it was slightly brighter that the used GE.

Maybe this is just normal because I got a 75w MV lamp the same time I got my 50w MV lamp off ebay for that Post top fixture I recently found and ran the 75w MV lamp off the correct H43 ballast, it was mega bright too. Maybe these small wattage MV lamps just kick out a lot of Lumens for the size. 
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Ash
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #22 on: August 01, 2016, 07:12:33 AM » Author: Ash
Its more like your 100W Mercs were underpowered (maybe its the ballast ?), or the "auto brightness" of your eyes "corrected" some of the difference away (if you didnt run the lamps at the same time to compare)
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Medved
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #23 on: August 01, 2016, 08:23:53 AM » Author: Medved
To really be sure, you need to check the lamp arc current (e.g. using the 125W lamp, the current would not differ).

The difference between the 50W and 100W lamps is a bit more than factor of two, that is not much for an eye if you have nothing to compare.
Moreover if you look at the lamp, you see the brightness and not the light output. Because the 50W has smaller surface, the brightness may be the same of both lamps, when both run at their rated power.
The eye is really not accurate enough "tool" to asses if the ballast is the correct one or what is happening there.
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wattMaster
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #24 on: August 01, 2016, 11:07:51 AM » Author: wattMaster
To really be sure, you need to check the lamp arc current (e.g. using the 125W lamp, the current would not differ).

The difference between the 50W and 100W lamps is a bit more than factor of two, that is not much for an eye if you have nothing to compare.
Moreover if you look at the lamp, you see the brightness and not the light output. Because the 50W has smaller surface, the brightness may be the same of both lamps, when both run at their rated power.
The eye is really not accurate enough "tool" to asses if the ballast is the correct one or what is happening there.

And don't forget that the eye is logarithmic, not linear, I think.
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Medved
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #25 on: August 01, 2016, 02:20:26 PM » Author: Medved
And don't forget that the eye is logarithmic, not linear, I think.

Exactly. And that is actually the reason, why it is so inaccurate in brightness judgment - it evolved to work with very broad range of illumination levels, so brightness difference of factor of two (so dropping to half) is what the eye may marginally notice as "just a slight difference"...
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #26 on: August 04, 2016, 11:26:22 PM » Author: wishus
Did you not install the capacitor?  According to the ballast schematic, it's just for power factor correction, so shouldn't affect the lamp output at all.
I'd recommend installing it.  It'll lower the line current draw.
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Medved
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #27 on: August 05, 2016, 01:30:09 AM » Author: Medved
Did you not install the capacitor?  According to the ballast schematic, it's just for power factor correction, so shouldn't affect the lamp output at all.
I'd recommend installing it.  It'll lower the line current draw.

With a single fixture of 50W it does not play any role at all. Of course, the difference would be dozens of fixtures, loading the circuit breakers close to their limits, but this is very far from that.
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tolivac
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #28 on: August 06, 2016, 01:09:32 AM » Author: tolivac
Also,using the PF cap can make your ballast run cooler rather than using power to heat the ballast.Usually there is a cap value marked on the ballast nameplate tells you the cap value and voltage.I added one to a mercury ballast-250W and it runs much cooler.
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Ash
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Re: Custom 50 watt MV mini bucket fixture. « Reply #29 on: August 06, 2016, 02:20:52 AM » Author: Ash
That would be the case only if the capacitor is in series with something (the lamp or a ballast winding). . But then it means that the capacitor is required and you should not run it without the capacitor at all. If the capacitor is parallel to the line voltage its presence/absence have no effect on the ballast heating
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