The trial and error would be taken by somebody of us, so the time is money (i.e. he could have been elsewhere earning money in this time), but among us are peeps who would be no less than pleased to spend a while on the machinery, i think so, so i dont see this being a problem

Nice trolling Ash, you keep on disregarding James' expert opinion on this matter (is that intentional on your part or you just don't realize it?). There really is not point continuing this discussion any further.

I know I said I wouldn't comment on this further, but I have to say just one thing.

Yes, I am interested in the way things are made, and I would love to visit Hamilton if it can be arranged, but the time, effort and money needed to continue to manufacture SOX lamps I really think is, while maybe not impossible (most things can be done if you throw enough money at them) is totally impractical considering what would actually be involved.

At the end of the day, I am a lamp collector not a lamp manufacturer.

I also really like SOX lamps, and I'm starting to collect as many as I can lay my hands on, but about ending the comments, I find it interesting it see them and the knowledge you can gain from some of the members on this forum who are pretty passionate about lighting, and have literally put hours of work into coming up with them, so I wouldn't stop commenting, but would keep the commenting positive and that's not saying there plans will happen and hamilton will stay open, and that's also not saying you can't challenge there idea's, they might actually end up with a valid plan even if it's small scale...

And Ash if you ever end up producing a SOX lamp or for that matter a SOX ballast, I want one the first productions of it...   

And Ash if you ever end up producing a SOX lamp or for that matter a SOX ballast, I want one the first productions of it...   

Me too

If you had to make a guess, how many such potential customers would you say we could have? I think that is ver very small number of people who want to have more genuine vintage appearance without getting real sox lantern and real lamp, and even with those wanting a real lantern most of would be collectors and enthusiast like us. The run up show is for most of the people thing that they dont care or may watch it maybe once. I would estimate only sale of few hundreds, if we are very lucky. More realisticly I would say selling even hundred would be hard.

What comes to high efficiency on higher wattage, I don't know if there is much demand ecxept those few legacy installations. Big sox lamps are nightmare in point of optics design.

And I'm still skeptic about that pl-t/c base able to support much heavier sox lamp. The lantern itself would need at least a support.


Also, what comes for those electronic ballast, wasn't there something about running LPS with hf ballast?

Whether this is a problem or not, depends on whether the production can be scaled down to match it (and hopefully, scaling down also the size of involved machinery as much as possible, e.g. taking a smaller slower machine if there is a choice for some production stage, or even taking the tools off an existing machine and assembling them on a new compact rig). This can be better evaluated after we have seen the machines

It might be possible to strike interest in people who were not interested before, if presenting the lamp (or a complete lamp+luminaire kit) in a way attractive to them. This may be by presenting the energy efficiency, fog penetration, eco friendly aspects of the lamp, or by presenting the lamp along with its features as an artistic design component

The run up process can possibly be paused or reversed by dimming the lamp (using suitable gear), and this opens even more ways in which the lamp could be presented for artistic design value



Big SOX lamps are a nightmare for road luminaire design, but road luminaires have optical requirements very different than virtually all other luminaires. Indeed, HID works far better for roads

Big SOX would work far better for floodlighting in e.g. wall mounted luminaires or luminaires similar to a Fluorescent weather pack, since there is no need to fight against the optical properties of the big lamp

Medium SOX would also work for area lighting posttop and similar outdoor luminaires, where the "everywhere" light distribution is okay. (In many such applications, some of the PL and LED luminaires which replaced the SOX ones have largely similar distribution anyway)



The SOX lamp is indeed heavier than a PL-T (the smallest SOX 18W weights 150g, while the biggest PL-T weights 100g)

 - The G24 base might be capable of handling safely the additional 50g depending on the burning position (for example, for a horizontal lamp setup, where the force acts on solid Plastic parts and not in the direction of pulling the lamp out)

 - The lantern designed for the SOX can be equipped with a support. The presence of the support would not prevent using a PL-T in the same lantern (the support can be designed so it does not interfere with the PL-T, or it may be positioned further from the socket so the shorter PL-T lamp does not reach it)



HID lamps cannot run at high frequency. The reason is, that the wavelength of the sound wave in the arctube atmosphere, for the frequency at which the lamp is powered, is of the same order as the arctube length, which can cause a standing wave to appear. A standing wave would push the arc towards the arctube wall in certain spots, overheating it in a concentrated way in those spots

SOX is not really a HID lamp, it is much more like a Sodium CFL of all things. The longer arctube and the diffused (not concentrated into a thin arc) discharge mean, that the effects making a problem in HID cannot happen in SOX. SOX benefit from running on HF the same way as Fluorescents do

I also really like SOX lamps, and I'm starting to collect as many as I can lay my hands on, but about ending the comments, I find it interesting it see them and the knowledge you can gain from some of the members on this forum who are pretty passionate about lighting, and have literally put hours of work into coming up with them, so I wouldn't stop commenting, but would keep the commenting positive and that's not saying there plans will happen and hamilton will stay open, and that's also not saying you can't challenge there idea's, they might actually end up with a valid plan even if it's small scale...

The only option is going small scale. The question of interest is whether and how this could be done

4.  You won't be able to change the public's perception or interest levels or anything like that regarding the SOX lamp.  There is just way too much more important stuff going on in the world that has peoples attention vs an outdated and inefficient light system.  

There are a lot of words I could apply to SOX, but inefficient isn't one of them..! Outdated, possibly (unfortunately) but inefficient it isn't..!

I agree with someone earlier who wrote that talk is cheap.

How many hours in your life are you going to commit on this project..? I won't be able to committing anything of my time since I have to work, have a family and other commitments.

SOX has had a great run and it has unfortunately reached the end of the road. We need to accept this and move on, even if the future appears bleak with LED. I will be sad to see SOX go completely from the roads here, their yellow glow has always been iconic to me as well as their famous ruby red warmup.

There are a lot of words I could apply to SOX, but inefficient isn't one of them..! Outdated, possibly (unfortunately) but inefficient it isn't..!

It is as far as the lighting industry and general public is concerned. 

It is as far as the lighting industry and general public is concerned. 

But not if you educate them.

And if they made a smaller self ballasted lamp that would be interesting...

The only thing it will affect some remote off gridders
That have inverter ballast to run sox lamps
35/ 55 watt sox.  Anyway i dont think led can beat
The near 200 lumens per watts in sox lamp
As off gridder have to watch there energy budget
As much as they cam and led cant throw the light like
Sox does for area lighting

Ok there still still prolly over 15 K sox user alone
In the in the US alone that still in service,  i know
Public storage unit got. Over 50 LPS 35 watt fixture
To maintain.  Do they want throw 50 watt HPS in and comsume more power? Because sox went obsolete

Some one should focus on buying 18 to 55 watts machinery,  and maybe modified low volume for 90 watt sox  as there still many in use here and we would have to throw away our fixtures thanks philips.

The 135 and 180 watt sox lamp use mostly in street lighting, those are ones really became expensive and there no demand for those as it dewindled off over the years in USA.  So philip should ditch those wattage.

Also there observtories here only lighting city can use is Sox lighting.  And led and even yellow ones will still have more spectral lines to filter out.

We should start a petition on philips lighting here and make some kind of accomendation even if they have to relocate machinery else where to make limited number
Of lamps.  Even if they ran 1 month out of the year for each wattage types to satified the demand

The only thing it will affect some remote off gridders
That have inverter ballast to run sox lamps
35/ 55 watt sox.  Anyway i dont think led can beat
The near 200 lumens per watts in sox lamp
As off gridder have to watch there energy budget
As much as they cam and led cant throw the light like
Sox does for area lighting

Ok there still still prolly over 15 K sox user alone
In the in the US alone that still in service,  i know
Public storage unit got. Over 50 LPS 35 watt fixture
To maintain.  Do they want throw 50 watt HPS in and comsume more power? Because sox went obsolete

Some one should focus on buying 18 to 55 watts machinery,  and maybe modified low volume for 90 watt sox  as there still many in use here and we would have to throw away our fixtures thanks philips.

The 135 and 180 watt sox lamp use mostly in street lighting, those are ones really became expensive and there no demand for those as it dewindled off over the years in USA.  So philip should ditch those wattage.

Also there observtories here only lighting city can use is Sox lighting.  And led and even yellow ones will still have more spectral lines to filter out.

We should start a petition on philips lighting here and make some kind of accomendation even if they have to relocate machinery else where to make limited number
Of lamps.  Even if they ran 1 month out of the year for each wattage types to satified the demand

I dont think petitions are any good, they dont make corporations that are on the bysiness of making money to make decision that will cause them doing business that is unprofitable. And I think company like Philips has really good resourcess to figure out where they can make money and where not. Otherwise they would no be that big.

15 000 sox users may sound high but if you put it that they replace all their lamps every 3-4 years (based on average life time of 16 000hrs, 12hrs@365d). And comparing that for current production that is estimated to be around 1 000 000 lamps per years, it's not very much.

The fact that Philips announced this closure now and not in 2020 is most likely because they wanted to give enought time for the users of LPS lamps to switch for other lightsources.

Also, as mentioned here before, the efficiency of smaller wattage sox lamps are nowhere near 200 lumens per watt.

   Also, as mentioned here before, the efficiency of smaller wattage sox lamps are nowhere near 200 lumens per watt.

Well smaller SOX lights are not 200 lumens per watt that is only on the large lamps, but a 35 watt SOX lamp can easily do 121 lumens per watt including the ballast losses, which is not bad considering most smaller LED's are lucky to hit 100 lumens per watt most are about 85 and unless your willing to spend the same as getting a new SOX light, and the LED's are non-dimmable and not rated for enclosed use, or anything more then damp locations, you can get 130 (when new but they degrade fairly quick as the phosphor burns, unlike SOX) and if you want to compare large lamps in the four foot sizing the t8 LED's you might just get to 120 which is still 80 short of 200 not bad considering the last time any real amount of money was spent on R&D on a SOX was 1990, and the maximum they are going to get with a phosphor mixed led will only be 260 and if they use nanotubes they "might" and that should be a real big "MIGHT" get to 300 but the economical leds will top out at 200 and the higher lumens per watt will be to costly for most users and/or will be in the lab only samples...

Well smaller SOX lights are not 200 lumens per watt that is only on the large lamps, but a 35 watt SOX lamp can easily do 121 lumens per watt including the ballast losses, which is not bad considering most smaller LED's are lucky to hit 100 lumens per watt most are about 85 and unless your willing to spend the same as getting a new SOX light, and the LED's are non-dimmable and not rated for enclosed use, or anything more then damp locations, you can get 130 (when new but they degrade fairly quick as the phosphor burns, unlike SOX) and if you want to compare large lamps in the four foot sizing the t8 LED's you might just get to 120 which is still 80 short of 200 not bad considering the last time any real amount of money was spent on R&D on a SOX was 1990, and the maximum they are going to get with a phosphor mixed led will only be 260 and if they use nanotubes they "might" and that should be a real big "MIGHT" get to 300 but the economical leds will top out at 200 and the higher lumens per watt will be to costly for most users and/or will be in the lab only samples...

Currently, but led is developing fast and there is no way to know yet what will it be in 2020 or 2025. This will also mean the price will come down as well. Leds are still very young compared to most other light sources.

In more simplified terms, here are the facts.

1.  You won't be able to purchase the equipment.
2.  You won't be able to produce the lamps.
3.  You won't be able to change the industry. 
4.  You won't be able to change the public's perception or interest levels or anything like that regarding the SOX lamp. 
5.  You don't have to like the fact that things like SOX and MV lamps have their days numbered, but there is not a dang thing you can do about it.

I basically have to agree with this
Sadly lets face it, SOX is dead, this is just the final nail in its coffin.
And for that matter MV is dead, HPS is dieing, MH as well, and as time goes along Fluorescent may well go too (T12 is certainly going to, T8 probably will, T5 & smaller are the only ones I could see lasting long-term)


Though back to SOX...
If you were filthy rich you could probably buy the equipment & factory building(s)...(the true value would be in the land those buildings are sitting on, everything else if anything probably has negative value and is just seen as something that needs to be demo'ed/cleared out)

But even saying you did get ahold of it all what would you do with it? you'd still need to get all the "stuff" to actually make the lamps? and how are you going to actually operate everything.
 
The one and only hope (and its a small one at that) for Philips SOX stuff is that one of the Chinese lamp factories will acquire everything and move it there.....

Funny you mention that:

https://m.made-in-china.com/product/High-Energy-Efficiency-36W-55W-Low-Pressure-Sodium-Lamp-764931355.html