Author Topic: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery  (Read 420 times)
Ash
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Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « on: April 15, 2018, 01:43:04 PM » Author: Ash
Lately there have been a series events on Lighting Gallery, that took not one, but multiple connected cases of poisonous behavior from multiple members, some of which are amongst the ones we trust the very most to not support such behavior

I have been in this site for 8 years and seen some of the bad times it went through in the past, but never yet something "out of the Blue" like this. And since it is to some extent a mass phenomena i think the right thing to do would be to bring this in the light



We are a board of people who take interest in lighting, and sometimes in other stuff too. Each of us see and appreciates lighting differently. It is great that we can be here together, and while at that, think, like and want not all the same things

We have proven to be able to share here things that interest many of us, and things that interest only a few. Sometimes very eccentric things were posted by somebody to see if anyone else is interested. We have always appreciated it. We have gone through different luminaires, LEDs, favorite music, toilets and vacuums, and did not have a problem, of anyone coming into a discussion of something they are not interested in and ruining it just for the sake of

We do have such problem now.



This showed up when i raised quite eccentric proposition on a subject, that may or may not be possible to achieve, and will likely interest few members

Initially there were a few that pointed out that it's impossible

There may be others who dont think so with such certainity, and may be interested in evaluating the proposition further. In fact, i want to find out who may be interested, and this is why i posted the proposition in the first place

Several members, who think that the proposition is impossible, forgot that as much as they are entitled to think so, I am and others are entitled to think otherwise. They destroyed the discussion because it does not go in line with their opinions.

They destroyed again the discussion after i tried to get a new start in it, to ensure that it can't advance anywhere.

Some of the comments placed to stop the discussion are pretending to be mature. The only immature thing is, that there was no reason for the members posting them to even enter the thread at this point. They entered it only to try to stop it from possibly going somewhere without their approval
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Everyone aired their opinion and the topic was laid to rest. I don't think anyone is interested
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Ash, this has been done to death. It is a laudable idea, but it just isn't feasible. Give it a rest, PLEASE.... Roll Eyes

And some were much less mature
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AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH......!!!!!!

[Runs off into distance screaming wildly while tearing out hair.......]

Finally, they got a forum administrator to lock it because it became a discussion going nowhere and they were getting tired of it. After their best efforts to turn it into one



I opened a new discussion

Quote from: Ash
I put this as a proposition, and am interested to see whether this can be done and how. I am looking for who might be interested in this happening, and would like to either 1. take part, or 2. point out possible problems and concerns

Please post your arguments for and against with appropriate reasoning, which can be discussed



I am asking to NOT do one thing in this thread : If you think this project can't succeed or there is a non-resolvable problem with it, don't force your opinion that it cannot be done. Present it and explain why, or just don't do anything

The new discussion seen its few first constructive posts.

And then, it started becoming one going nowhere through the efforts of the same members AND A FORUM ADMINISTRATOR

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While I won't lock this thread yet, if you keep beating a dead horse, I might have too, instead of just talking about it, try doing something about it? Singling out some members makes you unliked by the community.
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Ash,

You have done this to death, and it's getting very monotonous. It is a nice idea, but at the end of the day we're collectors of lamps, not manufacturers.

As to presenting you with facts why it can't be done I refer you to James' post on the original thread, have a read of it here for yourself as you don't want to believe it.

Can we please put an end to this now.?
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Yup, Ash, stop this, it's just getting annoying now, unless someone has contact with the person actually in control of this, I don't see the need to keep beating a dead horse.
Ash, why don't you go to the plant and talk to them yourself? As you seem to be the only one interested in this. I'm sure others are too, but give it a rest, please!
Thread closed



If we can :

 - Destroy threads

 - Politely ask to stop threads which pose no problem other than not getting in line with our personal opinion

 - Get tired of the mere existence of threads we were never required to participate in

 - Get administrators to lock threads to satisfy the members who are the problem, instead of keeping them open for the members who respectfully participate in them



Then the way is open for us to get rid of every single thread or picture post present in this website in exactly the same way, with exactly the same justifications

I hate your favorite lanterns.

I hate your favorite music which you posted in Off Topic.

I would like for that lamp to be smashed, so there is no chance of you getting it.

I think nobody is interested in your vacuum cleaner collection. Go vacuum with it elsewhere. We can lock this thread.

I am tired of seeing discussions about LEDs. All of them.

I am tired of seeing a pair of the same members seconding each other on every single post one of them make.

I am asking an administrator to remove all those things i hate because i hate them so much.



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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 04:55:29 PM » Author: Patrick
I don't think that's entirely fair.  The situation with the discontinuation of low pressure sodium is touchy not due to lock of interest, but rather because there is a great deal of appreciation for this light source here.  Many members were becoming frustrated since they would like to see a way for it to remain in production, but it was beginning to feel hopeless.  After a certain point, people got tired of thinking about it.  Yes, they could and should have ignored the posts, but it's tough once you've become emotionally involved.  It's good to be optimistic, but realistically SOX has been on the decline for decades, and the chances of any kind of revival succeeding is slim.

We had a similar chain of posts regarding the incandescent bulb bans.  There were a few members here becoming encouraged by a couple hundred signatures to an online petition, and acting like they expected congress to undoubtedly propose new legislation any day.  It became mildly irritating after a while to keep seeing post after post when you know it's not going to change the facts.

Perhaps some further discussion regarding this matter can take place in the future, but the administrators all agreed it would be best to give it a rest for a while, and hopefully let everyone cool off a bit.
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 05:51:34 PM » Author: Lumex120
Why did this whole thing get so overblown in the first place? From what I saw, he just brought up the topic of manufacturing SOX lamps and everyone got bent up about it. I'm obviously missing something, but I have never really seen anything like this in the almost 3 years I have been here (well, closer to 5 since I lurked for like 2 years before joining) so it just seems weird that this happened in the first place.
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 08:14:39 PM » Author: 589
Hey, as far as it concerns me, do as you see fit. Have the means for which to buy a SOX factory? Why not?

Next, I want to make something clear. I don't speak for everyone. That said, I would like to make an observation.  As to the origination of whatever is going on at this point, Ash, I believe that the original objections to your sox factory buyout proposal were out of concern that your expectations seemed unrealistic. I would think most would like to make sure you weren't going to take on a challenge that may prove to be very costly and could end up being a large regret for you down the road. I believe those are valid concerns that should be raised to anyone who makes a proposal as such. The future of SOX lamps is not worth it at the cost of your future. 

I think it is good for us to disagree at times, it helps us move foreward as we challenge each other. That tension must be managed carefully though or it can quickly get out of hand. I would venture to say that the situation has escalated to an unhealthy level at this point. My thoughts are that we should make peace and move on. Where I'm from we call this "burying the hatchet". This small but dedicated lighting community is too valuable for us to go after each other with unhindered vitriol.

I hope I'm not out of place saying the above, please feel free to correct me or provide feedback. Need clarity about my janky writing style? Please ask.
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 02:15:34 PM » Author: Ash
I don't think that's entirely fair.  The situation with the discontinuation of low pressure sodium is touchy not due to lock of interest, but rather because there is a great deal of appreciation for this light source here.  Many members were becoming frustrated since they would like to see a way for it to remain in production, but it was beginning to feel hopeless.  After a certain point, people got tired of thinking about it.  Yes, they could and should have ignored the posts, but it's tough once you've become emotionally involved.  It's good to be optimistic, but realistically SOX has been on the decline for decades, and the chances of any kind of revival succeeding is slim.

There is claim, that the existence of the discussion about saving SOX have frustrated some members

There is fact with 14 pages of evidence that those members forcefully acted to frustrate me personally and everyone who was interested in this discussion in general, which includes others who had constructive comments in the discussion, and possibly others who have only been reading it. They are the ones here that absolutely cannot be complaining about frustration

The members chose to destroy the discussion, which is not acceptable.

The administrators chose to join the members who destroy the discussion and use their administrative privileges for doing this, which is double as much not acceptable.

The actions cannot be justified by any justification citing emotions or any other thing. especially emotions. Justifying them mean, that emotions of people who act destructively and violently, are worth more than the emotions of people who act constructively and respectfully to try to address a challenge for the benefit of many



We had a similar chain of posts regarding the incandescent bulb bans.  There were a few members here becoming encouraged by a couple hundred signatures to an online petition, and acting like they expected congress to undoubtedly propose new legislation any day.  It became mildly irritating after a while to keep seeing post after post when you know it's not going to change the facts.
I dont like the presenting of this as "chain of posts", since it gives the impression we are talking about some sort of flooding. In the current case there were 2 threads that were open one at a time

I dont recall any flooding of multiple threads at once in the petition discussions either. They were just threads like all the rest that didn't particularly stand out

Nobody here put anyone to judge whether a thing is possible or not, and definitely not to enforce this judgement. If you are so sure it can't happen, why not let it go and see that you were right ? If not very sure but you would like to come out right anyway for everyone to see, that is when you might wish to destroy it. It is quite poisonous behavior

If anyone here have actual evidence to whether a factory purchase project could work, this is me. And the reason is, that i have done a thing like this before and have the experience - a thing i made known inside the thread, to anyone who cared to read it. This is also, why i stepped up to present the proposition. I think that members who have never done anything like this, dont have any knowledge on the subject except their perception of the complexity of the project, forcing their opinion in the ways done here is very highly offensive. Their gauging of skills of other members according to theirs is irritating too to say the least



Perhaps some further discussion regarding this matter can take place in the future, but the administrators all agreed it would be best to give it a rest for a while, and hopefully let everyone cool off a bit.
The presenting of the actions of the administrators as a choice that had to be done for the benefit of anyone is invalid. The administrators took part in the destruction and abused their power to add destruction, instead of protecting from the destruction. No one except the members who intended the destruction benefitted from this
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 04:24:03 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
I see viability in the idea (And that is coming from someone who is very well capable of pessimism) However as of this moment, I have not the monetary resource to participate.. As I do not have a job. The production would certainly need to be scaled back... as the demand for such lighting technology is low, Honestly I think wattages above 55 would simply need to be not made anymore, as SOX days of street lighting are over however, given time, you start coming up with new products... I'd imagine in future instances perhaps re-development of the electrode less SOX, may lead to a very long lived product.. Considering there would be no phosphors to degrade nor electrodes to wear out... which could be very well suited to applications where you'd need long lived light source (CRI not mattering) with low maintenance... such as security lighting, Pier lighting, Sea turtle lighting and Observatory lighting, and accent lighting are a few Nitch applications where I could see SOX remaining or even becoming more successful...


I'd imagine also... After scaling back production... the price of manufacture would go down.. (correct me If I'm wrong, I'm not exactly a business genius) that being said, the cost per bulb would go down, and perhaps will motivate people with existing installations to keep their lighting.. which will keep the income flowing in.. later on I'd imagine producing fixtures would be a good step.. once people begin to trust your product.. they may check into the fixtures your selling.. which could lead to more installations = more profit.. Perhaps aside from SOX lighting... this company should specialize in other products...  So you will have multiple points of income that you could funnel into developing more advanced SOX technologies.. Perhaps you could incorporate some of that other equipment you have previously acquired to manufacture a secondary product..


Forgive my scattered brained writing, That is all raw and unfiltered thoughts...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:26:44 PM by HomeBrewLamps » Logged

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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 07:57:44 PM » Author: Keyless
Not taking sides as I don't know what happened and I am not the person to do so, but I think its sad the LPS is being discontinued.  Cry But then again with LED taking over I can see it happening with all light sources.
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 08:29:19 PM » Author: joseph_125
While I personally would rather stockpile or hunt down rare lamps. I could see the appeal of continuing production of them in small batches. It would be neat to extend this to other discontinued lamps with no equivalent lamp like F90T17s, lumiline, circarc along with a small line of fixtures for said lamps. That being said I have my reservations about how financially viable this would be unless you price the lamps and fixtures/gear accordingly ($$$) to have a decent profit margin giving the immense start up costs and the fact that lighting is heading towards solid state (LED).

What I do personally disagree strongly with is locking the threads for this proposal just because part of site disagrees with the idea. It denies the people that agreed with the idea a chance to give their input and to plan further so a more substantial plan for saving a factory can be discussed. I personally think the moderation to the threads should have been limited to deleting the posts that were blatant trolling and warning the offenders instead of locking the thread altogether and denying discussion on the topic to those that were actually interested in seeing how this could have developed.         
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 08:52:45 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
I really don't know why this whole thing got so overblown...if its a topic someone has no interest in, why they'd even bother to waste the time reading it is beyond me.

I've seen other threads get a bit heated before (in the off topic section), where one of the mods/admins steps in, and or the whole thread justs dissapears with no trace Sad (IMO a thread should .never. be deleted...individual posts yes if needed. but threads should only be locked. (atleast that's that happened with the 2 SOX threads))

The basic thought of saving that equipment was a good idea (weather actually making lamps with it was feasable or not I really can't say.
Heell, if I was rich, and had a large shop-type building (and ofcourse if said factory wasn't far away)...and if the equipment was really sold off that chep, I'd save it just for the fuuck of it .lol. .. . ..
. .. . but: the factory is located thousands of miles away, I ain't rich, I don't have any sorta shop/storage building (or space in the yard to build one)...and don't even have enough space to store my own crap (I'm gonna have to start selling things off)
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 09:11:49 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
I did not even notice that Ash created a second Thread pertaining specifically to his idea until I looked over again... I disagree with it being locked, it is unjustified. Ya'll may have had an argument on the Meme thread (but at the same time not really IMO) but in this case you've done wrong. His post was not offensive in anyway, the people who find it annoying can simply not reply to it. making comments such as "Arggggg" is not constructive at all.
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Re: Mass poisonous behavior on Lighting Gallery « Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 05:33:52 AM » Author: MissRiaElaine
I promised myself I would stay out of this latest argument, but I just want to say one thing, and that is regarding the admin action in locking previous threads.

While you may not agree with the decision (I myself was once banned from a site on what I considered was a very arbitrary decision by a moderator), at the end of the day sites such as this are not a democracy. The site owner in particular has the right to take any action they see fit, whether you agree with it or not. If you disagree, you have 3 options - try to persuade the admins to change their decision (although politely please, no abusive messages), put up with it, or leave the site.

It's that simple.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 08:19:34 AM by MissRiaElaine » Logged

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