Author Topic: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans?  (Read 1887 times)
Lightingguy1994
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342
View Gallery


Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « on: July 10, 2018, 11:49:03 PM » Author: Lightingguy1994
Browsing my local light distributers website for curiosity I looked at their coloured metal halide lamp offerings. A red 175w Probe Start lamp was only rated for 5000hours and the green and blue versions were at 10000hours. Why is that ? These lamps are 40 or so each, Id get them but I don't have any real need since I plan to make full use of my lighting collection eventually
Logged
Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4007
View Gallery

Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #1 on: July 11, 2018, 01:17:40 AM » Author: Medved
Quite a big factor is the low production volume of such lamps. That means all development costs have to be distributed over way less pieces.
That has three major consequences, all related to development costs:
First the lamps are significantly more expensive than their "mainstream" white counterparts
As second, to keep the cost under control, the development budget becomes quite limited, compare to the mainstream.
That means their development has no chance to fine tune the designs to such extend as common with the mainstream. So the design is way less optimal, so with many degrading effects not solved, or at least the limited reliability statistical data means all the reliability performance estimation to be way less accurate. So if a company wants to preserve their reputation, simple solution is to shift the published data to make sure the real performance would still meet them even when the estimation was off.
And latest, the used technology is way less advanced than what is common with the white mainstream. Again the reason is to save on the development cost, when some design already works in at least somehow acceptable way. So the designs are lacking the latest features normally used to improve the reliability (in the mainstream used to big extend to allow further production cost reduction).
Also the high volume production brings way more performance feedback data, what alows the design to be way better optimized even during production.

It is rue the lamp designs share as much as possible know-how from the existing mainstream production, but not all aspect work the same way, because just the mfill mix is different, so needs different conditions or has different impact on the inner structures. So even when they look very similar, they still require quite significant development work and that is very expensive.

It is the same mechanism, what causes similar observation in car industry:
The budget cars are build very cheap way, but they are extremely well engineered, so their design really uses all what is really possible from the limited production budget.
On the other hand he super luxury cars are looking nice, they are expesive, full of "high tech", but are full of design mistakes (wrong battery orientation, so the electrolyte is not properly mixed during car use, so the battery needs to be frequently replaced, corrosion weak spots, etc).
Again the main reason is, although the super luxury vehicles are more than 10x more expensive than the budget types, the development budget for the cheap ones uses to be way more than 10x larger than the budget available to develop the luxury "road yachts".
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

Lightingguy1994
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342
View Gallery


Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #2 on: July 11, 2018, 04:51:00 PM » Author: Lightingguy1994
The cost of the lamps I was looking at are cheap for what they are, $40 Canadian for the 'Extra Value' as they call it brand ones. they also have USHIO in Magenta, Green, Blue and Orange with life of 6000 hours and each of those is $100 Canadian.

Could it be that the life is short because they are coloured? Perhaps 6000hours is the time the lamp is expected give a certain colour and after that the colour could change but still last for 1000's more hours ?
Logged
HomeBrewLamps
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1268
View Gallery


SodiumVapor 105843202020668111118 UCpGClK_9OH8N4QkD1fp-jNw majorpayne1226
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 07:00:39 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
Different fill mixtures react with the quartz walls differently... I assume some might have more corrosive elements in them.. Like Sodium...
Logged

--Owen

High Pressure Sodium Scavenger, Urban Explorer, Lighting Enthusiast and Creator of homebrewlamps (Duh lol) Cool High Pressure Sodium

High Pressure Sodium Sodium lighting is king!

BlueHalide
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Posts: 354
View Gallery

Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #4 on: July 11, 2018, 10:13:06 PM » Author: BlueHalide
The 6000-8000 hour lamp life given to colored metal halide lamps is due to exactly that, the average rated hours before the lamp's spectrum shifts significantly away from its intended saturated color, blue lamps in particular are the worst in maintaining that strong blue color, I have cheaper chinese blue lamps that burn pink or white after just several hundred hours of use. The "Extra Value" lamps you mentioned for $40 are almost certainly made by Plusrite or GMY, if thats the case, expect the "red" lamp to actually produce a pink/magenta color, the green will get whiter and whiter over time, and the blue lamps will invariably have a color temperature of 12,000K to 20,000K, expect these to turn whiter or pink/purple in short time.

The only quality colored metal halides on the market are Ushio, Osram/Radium, and Venture. These lamps all hold their color for at least their rated 6000 hours, but usually longer. I have a Ushio 400w magenta lamp thats done nearly 18,000 hours and its still pink.
Logged
Lightingguy1994
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 342
View Gallery


Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 10:39:05 AM » Author: Lightingguy1994
I find that so interesting ow they change colour like that, I wish other types of lighting were as interesting as this. I would get them but I have no need for coloured ones
Logged
MissRiaElaine
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1048
View Gallery

ATL
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 01:25:57 PM » Author: MissRiaElaine
I love coloured lamps, I'll get any lamp I like the look of if I can afford it, they don't get a lot of use in the collection, so lifespan isn't really a limiting factor as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see a street lit by coloured MH lamps at Christmas time, with each successive lamp a different colour as you travel along the road, that would really be something  Grin
Logged
Miss Cuddly
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 694
View Gallery

Mainly the mechanical side of things


ATL sammi.grayjones@gmail.com
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 10:12:19 AM » Author: Miss Cuddly
I love coloured lamps, I'll get any lamp I like the look of if I can afford it, they don't get a lot of use in the collection, so lifespan isn't really a limiting factor as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see a street lit by coloured MH lamps at Christmas time, with each successive lamp a different colour as you travel along the road, that would really be something
 Grin
It would be a lot easier to do, rather than putting up expensive displays...

That is if the whole street hasn't got LEDisease.  Cry
Logged

Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen)

LED lighting has its place in the home or other indoor uses, but outdoors in street lights is in my opinion not one of them.

MissRiaElaine
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1048
View Gallery

ATL
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 10:14:09 AM » Author: MissRiaElaine
It would be a lot easier to do, rather than putting up expensive displays...

That is if the whole street hasn't got LEDisease.
 Cry
Unfortunately, streets like that are becoming increasingly harder to find  Cry
Logged
589
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 366
View Gallery

Knight of the D-line streetlights


589
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 12:44:02 PM » Author: 589
I love coloured lamps, I'll get any lamp I like the look of if I can afford it, they don't get a lot of use in the collection, so lifespan isn't really a limiting factor as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see a street lit by coloured MH lamps at Christmas time, with each successive lamp a different colour as you travel along the road, that would really be something  Grin

Haha! Thatís a brilliant idea! Instead of having colored string lights (my preference over clear ones), a colored string of cobrahheads! That would be fantastic Cheesy
Logged

Low Pressure Sodium

MissRiaElaine
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1048
View Gallery

ATL
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 12:54:10 PM » Author: MissRiaElaine
Haha! Thatís a brilliant idea! Instead of having colored string lights (my preference over clear ones), a colored string of cobrahheads! That would be fantastic Cheesy
Colin (sailormoon_01_uk) has posted a series of pictures which illustrate this perfectly, I'm sure he won't mind me posting thumbnails here:

       
Logged
589
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 366
View Gallery

Knight of the D-line streetlights


589
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 04:08:43 PM » Author: 589
Exactly! One on each pole down the street, it would be a sight indeed!
Logged

Low Pressure Sodium

MissRiaElaine
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1048
View Gallery

ATL
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 04:40:32 PM » Author: MissRiaElaine
Exactly! One on each pole down the street, it would be a sight indeed!
Not many MH/HPS lamps around here at all any more, they're on an LED binge at the moment, they blitzed our entire street while we were away for 2 weeks  Cry Cry Cry

At least if we'd been here, I might have been able to blag a couple of the old ones, even if I couldn't convince them to go away  Cry
Logged
589
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 366
View Gallery

Knight of the D-line streetlights


589
Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 04:48:56 PM » Author: 589
Hey they could at least make them RGBAW Grin
Logged

Low Pressure Sodium

tolivac
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Posts: 491
View Gallery

Re: Why do coloured Metal Halide lamps have such short lifespans? « Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 10:54:27 PM » Author: tolivac
Speaking of colors-one of our Dialight LED tower lights is flashing in RED!!!Usually white!
Logged
Print 
© 2005-2018 Lighting-Gallery.net | Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines