Author Topic: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true?  (Read 8068 times)
Keyless
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #30 on: October 13, 2018, 05:49:44 PM » Author: Keyless
For US the 120V mans is quite a limitation. It needs way more complex design and yields lower efficacy, while the incandescents are more efficient there, so using long life incandescent was often cheaper (I mean the total cost of the light, so the sum of both purchase as well as energy costs) and more practical (no hot restart delays, allowing them to be switched off when not needed for the moment, so saving some energy back).

Ahem, US also has 240 volt mains  ;) And 277 volt in commercials. Many HID fixtures have 480 up to them, so imagine a 1000 watt mercury arc tube with a halogen ballast  ;D Although at that voltage I'd imagine the halogen would turn into a second arc tube when burning out. Light bulbs need precautions at 230, can't imagine 480.   

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For shopping these, I've seen them only on Alibaba, but as far as I know, Alibaba is B2B, so not designed to sell few pieces to mortals...
On their B2C AliExpress there were none at all, nor on Ebay...

Don't get me started- you don't want to see me angry lol- I've encountered that with many things. And actually am at the moment with another product.

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I'm not interested in "standard" selfballasted ones, I'm really after just the ones with the haligen capsule ballast...

Same here, before I saw these I did not really care about SBMV, except the idea of using a halogen ballast. But after I found them, I suddenly had my dream self ballasted lamp.
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Rommie
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #31 on: October 14, 2018, 12:56:56 PM » Author: Rommie
Ahem, US also has 240 volt mains  ;) And 277 volt in commercials. Many HID fixtures have 480 up to them, so imagine a 1000 watt mercury arc tube with a halogen ballast  ;D Although at that voltage I'd imagine the halogen would turn into a second arc tube when burning out. Light bulbs need precautions at 230, can't imagine 480. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it mandated over there that only 110/120V is to be used for lighting circuits..? I know you have the higher voltage for heavy current loads like washing machines and cookers etc., but all the normal power sockets and lighting fittings I've seen, at least in domestic premises, are 120V.
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Keyless
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #32 on: October 14, 2018, 08:03:55 PM » Author: Keyless
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it mandated over there that only 110/120V is to be used for lighting circuits..? I know you have the higher voltage for heavy current loads like washing machines and cookers etc., but all the normal power sockets and lighting fittings I've seen, at least in domestic premises, are 120V.


The restriction only applies to all lighting and plug connected devices under 1440 VA in residential settings. Outside of residential the restrictions apply only to higher voltages. In residential you have 240 volt plugs for things like Air conditioners, heaters, kilns, dryers, stoves, ect. Technically code can not enforce what you plug into them  ;) Washers in the US are typically 120 volts, since historically they did not have a heater and many still do not.


Here are the voltage restriction rules from the 2017 NEC:

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210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations. The nominal voltage
of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted by
210.6(A) through (E).

A) Occupancy Limitation. In dwelling units and guest rooms
or guest suites of hotels, motels, and similar occupancies, the
voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal, between conductors
that supply the terminals of the following:

(1) Luminaires

(2) Cord-and-plug-connected loads 1440 volt-amperes, nominal,
or less or less than 1∕4 hp

(B) 120 Volts Between Conductors. Circuits not exceeding
120 volts, nominal, between conductors shall be permitted to
supply the following:

(1) The terminals of lampholders applied within their voltage
ratings

(2) Auxiliary equipment of electric-discharge lamps

Informational Note: See 410.137 for auxiliary equipment limitations.

(3) Cord-and-plug-connected or permanently connected
utilization equipment

(C) 277 Volts to Ground. Circuits exceeding 120 volts, nominal,
between conductors and not exceeding 277 volts, nominal,
to ground shall be permitted to supply the following:

(1) Listed electric-discharge or listed light-emitting diode type
luminaires

(2) Listed incandescent luminaires, where supplied at
120 volts or less from the output of a stepdown autotransformer
that is an integral component of the luminaire
and the outer shell terminal is electrically connected to a
grounded conductor of the branch circuit

(3) Luminaires equipped with mogul-base screw shell lampholders

(4) Lampholders, other than the screw shell type, applied
within their voltage ratings

(5) Auxiliary equipment of electric-discharge lamps
Informational Note: See 410.137 for auxiliary equipment limitations.

(6) Cord-and-plug-connected or permanently connected
utilization equipment


(D) 600 Volts Between Conductors. Circuits exceeding
277 volts, nominal, to ground and not exceeding 600 volts,
nominal, between conductors shall be permitted to supply the
following:

(1) The auxiliary equipment of electric-discharge lamps
mounted in permanently installed luminaires where the
luminaires are mounted in accordance with one of the
following:

a. Not less than a height of 6.7 m (22 ft) on poles or
similar structures for the illumination of outdoor
areas such as highways, roads, bridges, athletic fields,
or parking lots

b. Not less than a height of 5.5 m (18 ft) on other structures
such as tunnels
Informational Note: See 410.137 for auxiliary equipment
limitations.

(2) Cord-and-plug-connected or permanently connected
utilization equipment other than luminaires

(3) Luminaires powered from direct-current systems where
either of the following apply:

a. The luminaire contains a listed, dc-rated ballast that
provides isolation between the dc power source and
the lamp circuit and protection from electric shock
when changing lamps.

b. The luminaire contains a listed, dc-rated ballast and
has no provision for changing lamps.
Exception No. 1 to (B), (C), and (D): For lampholders of infrared
industrial heating appliances as provided in 425.14 .
Exception No. 2 to (B), (C), and (D): For railway properties as described
in 110.19.


(E) Over 600 Volts Between Conductors. Circuits exceeding
600 volts, nominal, between conductors shall be permitted to
supply utilization equipment in installations where conditions
of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified
persons service the installation.


Personally I think the 240 volt restriction rules are dumb. For one, the Philippine electrical code is almost identical to the NEC (based on the NEC) and that same section has 230 volts listed instead of 120. But then again, the NEC does not have any earth fault loop impedance requirements or time disconnection requirements- so forcing 120 volts line to ground in places where people are typically in contact with the frames of portable equipment might be a good idea.    
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:13:44 PM by Keyless » Logged
Medved
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #33 on: October 15, 2018, 03:09:38 AM » Author: Medved
Technically code can not enforce what you plug into them  ;)     

It does: Using a 240V plug on a lighting fixture IS violation of the code by itself.
And without a 240V plug, you won't connect there anything in a code compliant manner...
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Keyless
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #34 on: October 15, 2018, 08:30:29 AM » Author: Keyless


Yes, but how do you enforce that? You can't.
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Medved
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #35 on: October 15, 2018, 09:42:54 AM » Author: Medved
Well, till you want some money from your insurance in case some bad thing happens. All the insurance companies are top experts in finding excuses why they "can not pay you full" and finding that will just be "the proof you have violated the Codes, so insurance policies"...
Plus for all commercial installations you need regular certified inspection. I would doubt you will find any sane certified inspector acknowledging anything not inline with the code...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:15:17 PM by Medved » Logged

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Keyless
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #36 on: October 15, 2018, 05:20:21 PM » Author: Keyless
Well, till you want some money from your insurance in case some bad thing happens. All the insurance companies are top experts in finding excuses why they "can not pay you full" and finding that will just be "the proof you have violated the Codes, so insurance policies"...
Plus for all commercial installations you need regular certified inspection. I would doubt you will find any sane certified inspector acknowledging anything not inline with the code...


Just unplug the device and presto- no known existence of the violation. As is fires rarely get a fine tooth comb unless arson is suspected. In commercial it would not matter as 240 volt lighting and equipment under 1440 va is allowed.
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Fluorescent05
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Re: I'm in heaven- is this to good to be true? « Reply #37 on: October 15, 2018, 08:32:31 PM » Author: Fluorescent05
Well, till you want some money from your insurance in case some bad thing happens. All the insurance companies are top experts in finding excuses why they "can not pay you full" and finding that will just be "the proof you have violated the Codes, so insurance policies"...
Plus for all commercial installations you need regular certified inspection. I would doubt you will find any sane certified inspector acknowledging anything not inline with the code...
Well just install it in your home, not business and you'll be fine.
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