Author Topic: Getting tired of Apple Macs  (Read 2649 times)
Roi_hartmann
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #30 on: April 14, 2020, 12:56:46 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
Audacity and VLC are both available on Linux, we use VLC on a daily basis. Haven't use Audacity for a while, but I think it's still installed.

Don't play games so that aspect doesn't matter to us. We use Thunderbird for email. It's simple and it works. WINE can be used to run many Win .exe programms, but not all. The ones I use such as Ace Money (a money manager) and Echolink (an amateur radio program) work fine. The only ones that I would like to work but don't are the radio programmer and the Satnav updater  Undecided

Yeah, vlc for linux. I just installed Kubuntu few months ago and yes it comes with vlc if one desires so. But, there is a bug that if you don't stop video playback before you close the window the vlc process gets stuck and the player wont start again until you kill the process. Googling told it has something to do with gpu drivers and the bug has been known for years yet nobody has bothered to fix it.

Working with files in local network over NFS works poorly and is much slower than with windows

Another problem I got is that when somebody post an image to discord and I want to download it I can click "open original" and it opens it to Gwenview, yet I cannot save or copy it because all those selections are gray. This is probably some stupid privilege level thing but what a bummer to have this sort of basic problem.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 12:58:19 PM by Roi_hartmann » Logged

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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #31 on: September 12, 2020, 03:51:43 PM » Author: Meme Pods
i persnaly hate the new macs and with them switching to there own CPUs i haope they get better i use a 2007 white macbook and its amazing but the newer ones are crap. Angry Angry cursing
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #32 on: September 14, 2020, 05:42:57 AM » Author: 589
Let me toss a quarter in the jukebox of all the Linux fans out there. A reality check if you will. 

I love the idea of Linux, itís purpose, itís mission, those that back it and use it. I really do, in fact I use it whenever I can.  The problem is once you get out of the web space and geeky, or officey things and get into power user stuff especially in video, maybe, MAYBE 5% of the software we use has a Linux version. On top of that much of the hardware we use doesnít even have Linux drivers, so even if the software was there or used wine(If you can), the hardware is useless with Linux anyway. So, until major industries get a clue and use Linux itís just going to be a thing for geeks and web servers. Out here in the real world where we actually do cool stuff with computers we use WIN and MAC OS(when possible), itís just the way it is.


Hereís another quarter.

One big obstacle to Linux growth is how janky it can be to get something to work. Case and point, CLI. Lemme tell you about it. Unless you are a geek, most people donít like it. A simile if you will for how it feels to most people, CLI is like being dropped into a foreign country without knowing the language. More than that, you cannot hear anyone speaking , yet no one will speak to you unless you speak their language to them PEFECTLY first. Thatís how CLI feels, anxiety central. Thereís almost no context outside of the not very helpful ďhelpĒ command. With a UI you can at least use pure logic, problem solving, and deduction to figure out what youíre doing even if you have never seen it before. You canít do that with CLI unless you throughly know what you want and how to get it ahead of time. I shouldnít have to have a computer science degree to operate one, thatís what programmers are for.

In WIN or MAC OS itís a very rare thing that you need to drop to CLI. My experience with Linux is not that way, installing SW half the time you end up doing something in CLI just to get it to work properly. Until Linux can get to the place that it is much more heavily UI driven like itís corporate behemoth brethren so a mere human can use it, itís not going anywhere. Let me clarify that, I donít mean necessarily a fancy GUI, just at least visible menus and options, even in text. No blank screens with blinking cursors!


Now that many Linux folks are probably offended and will write me angry responses Wink, there is a salve Iíve found for win10 woes since most of the SW I use runs on it, shutup10 by o&o SW. It allows you to turn off most of the stuff people have been complaining it does here. In my experience it even runs faster after turning off all the tracking, etc. I actually like win10 as long as itís paired with shutup10. As far as MACs go, Iím still rocking my 2013 MBA, itís one of the best laptops ever made. Itís thin, light, powerful, has a great battery, and most of the failure points are fairly easily serviced. It can run just about any OS you could want too.  In 7 years the only problem Iíve had with it is the screen hinge screws got loose once, I took it to the Apple store and they fixed it for free even though it was way out of warranty. Like two years out. That is customer service.
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #33 on: September 14, 2020, 06:39:05 AM » Author: dischargecraze
I have a 2011 Macbook Air 11" that I have heavily used and has been working perfectly up until now. It reboots sometimes middle in the night giving the startup chime 3 times, battery runs empty in 1.5 hours or so. I really like MacOS because it works for me, it never crashes and the UI is more polished. Mine has just 60gb of internal storage, 2gb of RAM, which is not enough in 2020. I find that it still works fine for browsing the web and recording my bass, but Iím considering a Windows laptop because it would be cheaper.
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #34 on: September 14, 2020, 10:52:50 AM » Author: sox35
@ 589

I've been using Linux (mainly Fedora) for at least the last 10 years, and I can promise you that if I didn't need a handful of Windows programs for specialist tasks such as programming the 2-way radios I use, it wouldn't get a look-in here. For the average user, by that I mean someone who just wants to browse the web, use email and do a bit of word processing etc. then it does all that without breaking a sweat. Granted, those who need more specialised tools might struggle with a few things, but development is always progressing and even gamers can do quite a lot now, although that's not my thing so I don't really know too much about it.

The best thing about it though is it's free. No extortionate Micro$oft licence fees, or program costs. Also, the update utility takes care of every piece of software you have on the machine, from the operating system kernel to the smallest utility to drive the on-screen clock. And the version we use here (Fedora) updates daily, so you always have the latest version of everything. There is also no need for the overhead of a virus checker, there simply aren't any worth worrying about in the wild. Because the development is done by many individuals across the world, if someone tried to introduce a virus it would be very quickly picked up and dealt with before it hit the end user.

Yes, the CLI can be somewhat daunting, but it's often the quickest way to do some things, particularly if you're the admin and need to reset somebody's password  Cheesy  It takes some getting used to I admit, and I don't know half of it, but it's fun learning, and that's part of the appeal to me.

As I said, I do keep a Windows machine for a couple of specialist tasks, but it only gets powered up once a week or so, if that.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 10:56:26 AM by sox35 » Logged

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Roi_hartmann
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #35 on: September 14, 2020, 12:09:18 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
@ 589

I've been using Linux (mainly Fedora) for at least the last 10 years, and I can promise you that if I didn't need a handful of Windows programs for specialist tasks such as programming the 2-way radios I use, it wouldn't get a look-in here. For the average user, by that I mean someone who just wants to browse the web, use email and do a bit of word processing etc. then it does all that without breaking a sweat. Granted, those who need more specialised tools might struggle with a few things, but development is always progressing and even gamers can do quite a lot now, although that's not my thing so I don't really know too much about it.

The best thing about it though is it's free. No extortionate Micro$oft licence fees, or program costs. Also, the update utility takes care of every piece of software you have on the machine, from the operating system kernel to the smallest utility to drive the on-screen clock. And the version we use here (Fedora) updates daily, so you always have the latest version of everything. There is also no need for the overhead of a virus checker, there simply aren't any worth worrying about in the wild. Because the development is done by many individuals across the world, if someone tried to introduce a virus it would be very quickly picked up and dealt with before it hit the end user.

Yes, the CLI can be somewhat daunting, but it's often the quickest way to do some things, particularly if you're the admin and need to reset somebody's password  Cheesy  It takes some getting used to I admit, and I don't know half of it, but it's fun learning, and that's part of the appeal to me.

As I said, I do keep a Windows machine for a couple of specialist tasks, but it only gets powered up once a week or so, if that.


I have to disagree with this. Gaming in linux is really not an option for majority of users. Even thought there is steam for linux getting games working requires terrible amount of manual adjusting. Wine is also not an easy choice either.

Linux update system also has one irritating thing and it's probably exactly same reason LG cannot be update. Because in many cases you have to stab software and settings so that you get it work the way you need, updating it then usually breaks something. LG too has so customized version of it's platform that it would simply take huge amount of effort to be able to succesfully update it to newer version. Yes, there are LTS version of Linux but those are usually not an option for desktop since most of the software is either ancient and thus lack features or simply does not work due to dependencies which are IMO really stupid system. You can, of course, stab the software once again but that usually leads back to previous problem.

If I had to use Linux for work the first thing I would miss is ms office. Libre office is 10 years behind in development. Also something as simple as using multiple monitors, which can be set up with few clicks in windows, at least used to need stupidly large amount of work to get working in linux and still it would not always work well.
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #36 on: September 14, 2020, 12:20:19 PM » Author: sox35
@ Roi_hartmann

I'm not a gamer, so you could well be right on that score. But Libre Office, while not perfect, is adequate for my use. As for updating, I can't say I've ever really had that much of a problem. I think the most irritating thing recently has been the decision of Dropbox to change the colour of the tray icon for when files are synchronised from white with a green tick to plain white. But that was very easy to rectify, something I've yet to manage with Windows.

Multiple monitors, I have two here, one on the laptop and one plugged into the docking station. Although the latter has sockets for two extra monitors, only one will work, but that's due to the video card built into the laptop rather than any software issue. Two monitors is enough for me, anyway.

In short, it works for me. Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #37 on: September 14, 2020, 04:01:34 PM » Author: Ash
Let me toss a quarter in the jukebox of all the Linux fans out there. A reality check if you will. 

I love the idea of Linux, itís purpose, itís mission, those that back it and use it. I really do, in fact I use it whenever I can.  The problem is once you get out of the web space and geeky, or officey things and get into power user stuff especially in video, maybe, MAYBE 5% of the software we use has a Linux version. On top of that much of the hardware we use doesnít even have Linux drivers, so even if the software was there or used wine(If you can), the hardware is useless with Linux anyway. So, until major industries get a clue and use Linux itís just going to be a thing for geeks and web servers. Out here in the real world where we actually do cool stuff with computers we use WIN and MAC OS(when possible), itís just the way it is.


Hereís another quarter.

One big obstacle to Linux growth is how janky it can be to get something to work. Case and point, CLI. Lemme tell you about it. Unless you are a geek, most people donít like it. A simile if you will for how it feels to most people, CLI is like being dropped into a foreign country without knowing the language. More than that, you cannot hear anyone speaking , yet no one will speak to you unless you speak their language to them PEFECTLY first. Thatís how CLI feels, anxiety central. Thereís almost no context outside of the not very helpful ďhelpĒ command. With a UI you can at least use pure logic, problem solving, and deduction to figure out what youíre doing even if you have never seen it before. You canít do that with CLI unless you throughly know what you want and how to get it ahead of time. I shouldnít have to have a computer science degree to operate one, thatís what programmers are for.

In WIN or MAC OS itís a very rare thing that you need to drop to CLI. My experience with Linux is not that way, installing SW half the time you end up doing something in CLI just to get it to work properly. Until Linux can get to the place that it is much more heavily UI driven like itís corporate behemoth brethren so a mere human can use it, itís not going anywhere. Let me clarify that, I donít mean necessarily a fancy GUI, just at least visible menus and options, even in text. No blank screens with blinking cursors!


Now that many Linux folks are probably offended and will write me angry responses Wink, there is a salve Iíve found for win10 woes since most of the SW I use runs on it, shutup10 by o&o SW. It allows you to turn off most of the stuff people have been complaining it does here. In my experience it even runs faster after turning off all the tracking, etc. I actually like win10 as long as itís paired with shutup10. As far as MACs go, Iím still rocking my 2013 MBA, itís one of the best laptops ever made. Itís thin, light, powerful, has a great battery, and most of the failure points are fairly easily serviced. It can run just about any OS you could want too.  In 7 years the only problem Iíve had with it is the screen hinge screws got loose once, I took it to the Apple store and they fixed it for free even though it was way out of warranty. Like two years out. That is customer service.



I am on Linux since 2003 - I have just about missed Windows XP, using Windows 2000 Professional right up to my moving to Linux. (And before it 95 and 98). In this time i went through Jr. high school, high school, college, multiple IT jobs, and now engineering

I have done writing (including all my school and college writing), drawing (like my user picture, it is a character from a manga i had drawn many years ago), technical drawing, picture editing, video editing. electrical engineering, software development (for Linux desktop, for network applications running on a Linux backend, and for MCU's) and hacking. All exclusively under Linux and exclusively with native Linux software (not Windows software on Wine)

I got to experience many things, from asinine early versions of OpenOffice (1.x 2.x which back then was little more than a very buggy Wordpad, with completely broken support of Rigth to Left languages, completely broken conversion from/to DOC file formats, and barely able to open files it itself saved - in some ancient format, the ODT format didnt exist back then). And all the way up to most Linux software from the last 10+ years, which have became great and often best in class software. This includes modern LibreOffice, which formula editor is far better than that in MS Office, and most of everything else works well

To sum this up - It works and it covered well all what i ever asked from it



My Linux system of choice is Gentoo, right from the start, and to this day

This system is completely about power. If we compare it to Pokemon, it is akin to some of the strongest legendaries, that might be the hardest to grow, and when done right come out with unrealistic powers. As for Gentoo Linux, it provides unmatched ability to get my system how i want it - all the way down to what internal features will be included or excluded from programs at compile time, optimizing the system for the exact hardware it will be running on, and more

This is "not for the faint hearted" - It is a system which assumes a power user. It is installed from source code. All install and administration is done manyally by single commands doing single tasks (using some very powerful tools, but still in commandline)

However, you don't have to be a power user before getting to Gentoo. It is possible to grow to be one while mastering this OS. I came to it virtually straight from Windows (i was maybe advanced in Windows, but completely new to anything outside of Windows)

I have never cared much about the "easy" Linux systems - whether or not some Linux system finally allows use without commandline, or anything like that

(Now with Windows 10 out and about, i think there are good reasons for everyone to leave it, but its ultimately their choice. I think the "easy" Linux systems probably do cover the needs of most users)



My use of Windows was at the workplace, using Windows provided by the company (mostly XP / Server 2003) for the Windows needs of the company (administering Windows network, using Windows CAD software, etc)

In all cases i seen, the "Linux world" provides adequate tools for the same tasks, whether or not they have some extras that a "Windows world" program might have (and that might be a deal maker/breaker for somebody looking for something very specific, but in most cases they are not that important)

This holds as long as the "Linux world" tools are used within the Linux world, and "Windows world" for Windows. The ability to use tools between the 2 ecosystems is not always there. For example - i haven't tried using a Linux tool for Windows network administration or the other way around - I guess it does not work too great

In software used to create stuff, sometimes each software package saves in its own format, and often doesn't even recognize the other one's. The most common case of isolation happens when the file format of the Windows program is proprietary so nobody can implement it in the Linux program (until it eventually gets hacked), and the Linux program's file format is regarded (by the Windows program makers) as something that doesn't deserve their attention



Standard use case of commandline nowadays is with the commandline open in one window, and internet (manual, forum discussion, etc) in another window. So you can find all sorts of howto's and examples for what you are trying to do. In most of the things a "simple user" might have to do at the commadn line, it sums up to copy paste...



I never had a problem with hardware compatibility, having multiple PCs (most of them trash finds, so haven't been very new already when i found them). Common PC hardware from Pentium-MMX up to Core ix, along with the occasional 2+ monitors, video card, sound card, laptop ACPI, ethernet, RAID, webcam, or something else

(However, i never really pushed the video cards hard so can't tell whether their full performance was actually available. They seemed to work fine with HD video and basic OpenGL and thats as far as i went)

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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #38 on: September 15, 2020, 07:00:28 AM » Author: sox35
I'll throw another couple of things into the mix. There is a well known chain of high street opticians here in the UK called Specsavers. Their company network, including all the in-store terminals, runs Linux. The user interface is entirely graphical, no CLI used, except perhaps for programming, which obviously doesn't concern the in-store staff. There are touch screens and it seems to work very well. I don't know the variety of Linux they use, but the person I spoke to in our local branch didn't know either.

Also, it's notable that ALL of the top 500 supercomputers in the world run Linux, as do most of the world's web servers.
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #39 on: September 15, 2020, 08:07:03 AM » Author: Roi_hartmann
When talking about supercomputers and commercial servers with linux it's worth to note that in many cases there is RHEL running on those which is commercial product.

Also using linux in environment where user only needs to do limited set of things with it and in case something goes wrong there is IT support available is easy choice. Retail chain or other such businesses are well suited for this when user need to use only certain predefined programs to do certain predefined tasks.
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Re: Getting tired of Apple Macs « Reply #40 on: September 15, 2020, 08:10:50 AM » Author: sox35
Absolutely, but it does show that Windows or Mac does not reign supreme as many would have you believe.
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