Author Topic: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War.  (Read 1476 times)
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 11:55:18 AM » Author: FGS
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power-Solar and wind is just too sporadic as a steady power supply.Those are GREAT for battery charging or other small uses.Hydro-gravity power is the ONLY alternative "green" power source that really works.Make more use of it!And there is a problem with large solar farms-the panels cover the landscape so it can't be used for anything else-and after 5-10 yrs the panels are putting out from 10-20 percent less power.And disposal of spent panels can be a problem.Landfills don't want them-and they are difficult to recycle.

No one has said anything about solar and wind power replacing nuclear or coal power. As for landscaping. Put them on roofs of buildings. No one uses the roofs for anything else but keep the elements out of the living/work spaces so might as well put solar panels on there.

The large scale solar farms are mostly in deserts. Since deserts are scarcely populated so landscaping is not an issue.


Engineers, designers, planners, artists, draftsmen, and the list goes on. What are you talking about "nothing much went on back then"? Did you forget about the small towns that relied on their factories? The summer jobs for the teens? The tax base for the towns. You know, the insignificant stuff like that which means a lot to rural America.

The engineering, designing and such can stay in the USA as is it with iPhones (designed in California, made in China.) The actual making of the things can be elsewhere since itís likely if the making DO come back here itíll be mostly automated. So all the factories might as well bring back the pollution and traffic.

Summer jobs for the teens? Retail and landscaping. Iím sure there are others but I canít think of one right now. Manufacturing isnít the only source of summer jobs. Besides what make you think insurance companies would allow factories to hire minors to work there?

Going green is another farce if the PC space cadets. Look at how much Solyndra cost the taxpayers before it went "belly up". Look at the thousands of bald eagles the wind turbines kill every year. The PVC greenie liberals hand pick what they want to be broadcast and they cover up the real facts with propaganda.

You mean like Exxon Valdezís oil spill in the 80s or the BPís Deepwaterís spill late 2000s killing countless of wildlife in the oceans? Or the coal mining tearing down mountain tops in West Virginia and its polluted waters, not to mention miners getting lung cancers from the dust or killed in cave ins?

Solyndra isnít the only company that can make solar panels and related hardware. Thatís like saying SpaceX is the only space faring rocket manufacturer. At least my tax money went to try and improve the world and the lives of other people. No one died when that company went belly up. Which is far better than what a huge chunk of my tax money is going. Making/using war stuff to see out young American citizens crippled/killed in senseless wars*. They likely took what went wrong with Solyndra and made sure it doesnít happen again.

*Most of the recent wars is not for democracy or helping other countries fight off their tyrannical governments. The reason we went to wars is for the black gold. Case in point, North Korea. Itís as tyrannical as they get if not the top one but we havenít ďfreedĒ it like we did Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. North Korea doesnít have petroleum reservoirs under it.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 03:52:23 PM by FGS » Logged

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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 12:32:30 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
Companies will manufacture products where it's cheapest to do, be it China or Africa. If they will have to move the production to somewhere where the cost of labour or other production fees are higher that will mean the retail price of the product has to go up to cover the rising expenses.

If Iphones would be completely made in America, they wouldn't be selling it for the price they do now. Same goes for other products as well. We nowadays have countless ridiculously cheaper products (good and bad quality) to buy because there are still countries where it's cheaper to hire someone to do the boring, mind killing manual factory work than get a machine to do it.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 06:49:26 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power
Though I don't see what this has to do with Trump's idiotic tariffs (it won't be China paying those, it will be YOU and, me, and everyone else who buys anything in the US.)

On Solar/Wind power... replace coal: no, supplement: yes.
Fact is, with electronic/electric devices (and especially if electric cars become even somewhat common) the use of electricity will only continue to grow. More generation capability will be needed, so rather than build another gas or coal (or even worse nuke) plant, put in solar & wind farms. I personally don't see coal/etc-fired plants going away within my lifetime.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 08:48:39 PM » Author: GE101R
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power-Solar and wind is just too sporadic as a steady power supply.Those are GREAT for battery charging or other small uses.Hydro-gravity power is the ONLY alternative "green" power source that really works.Make more use of it!And there is a problem with large solar farms-the panels cover the landscape so it can't be used for anything else-and after 5-10 yrs the panels are putting out from 10-20 percent less power.And disposal of spent panels can be a problem.Landfills don't want them-and they are difficult to recycle.
[/quote
Agree 100%]
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 11:52:19 PM » Author: tolivac
The solar farm folks are bullying farmers in my area for their land to put the solar farms on.The intense bullying is something I detest.and the land IS NOT useable for farming when covered with the solar panels.and the solar power company dumps the equipment on the farmer-so at the end of its useful life the landholder has to dispose of the equipment-the panels and their mounts-this gets EXPENSIVE!!!Remember the landfills here won't take the panels and they can't be easily recycled.Sometimes the landowners have a difficult time saying "no".Now at least with windmills the land around them still could be used for other purposes.I am not a fan of these techs because they are expensive-take up too much space-unsightly,and in the case of the windmills pose a hazard to mirating birds-and the best place for these mills in in the birds flyways!also folks don't like the whooshing sounds from the windmill blades.These techs should be replaced by reopening updated coal plants and gas turbine-thermal plants-the exhaust from the gas turnbine heats water to make steam to run a steam turbine-turning another generator.Also we need more hydro plants.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 04:45:04 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: tolivac
The solar farm folks are bullying farmers in my area for their land to put the solar farms on.
That seems like totally the wrong place to put solar. To me, out in the desert is a good place since the land isn't useable for much. And an even better place is the rooftops of city buildings (a space that is basically totally useless), plus in the city the power generated doesn't have to be transmitted long distances (so no line-loss)


Quote
Also we need more hydro plants. 
That can only be a very regional thing, allot of areas there isn't the rivers(or proper spot for a dam) to do it. Though I do agree it should be used more where it can.


And another that should be used more (abit one that can only be done in certain locations) is geo-thermal generation.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 10:32:37 PM » Author: takemorepills
Why do people think it is their right to buy things as cheaply as possible? Year after year, I see more and more stuff no longer USA made. Talk to the average person, and they are all for it if it means they save $2.

I used to live and work in China, and I can tell you we should have pulled the plug on them 20+ years ago. Tiananmen should have been the trigger.

In US politics, when rules were loosened to allow greedy US companies to offshore to China, many politicians would be uneasy allowing work to flow to China, but they would usually come around when sold on the idea of "democracy through capitalism" well here we are 30 years later, our landfills being filled with cheap Chinese stuff and few Americans working in productive industries. Those of you who lament on the Trade War need to read up on Xi Jin Ping. Quite possibly the most dangerous regime that the west now faces.

Worse, much of our USA IP has been stolen from us and in many cases weaponized against the west.

Soberingly, it is sad that Americans don't realize when they buy Chinese made products, a little bit of that money goes to a repressive regime who uses it to build weapons to destroy the west. China points nukes at us, and they are very open that militarily, we are an adversary.

The fact that China has always considered us a military adversary makes me very upset at Americans who don't get the gravity of that. And a few times I have heard ignorant people say "well, remember Japan 50 years ago? China will be just like that, just you wait" yeah right. Japan is a US ally. China is NOT.

And all the OP can concern themselves with is that maybe prices for some stuff will go up??

Thank you Trump for trying, but you are not trying hard enough. The good news? It seems that even Democrats have got major beef with China, so China will not be able to rest easy if Trump loses 2020. See, this isn't a political rant because this is a rare thing that both sides in USA can agree on.

Unfortunately, we are likely too late. We care more about gender pro-nouns than we care about realizing the beast from the East is about to take our lunch!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 10:39:16 PM by takemorepills » Logged
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #22 on: June 13, 2019, 06:18:06 AM » Author: FGS
Why do people think it is their right to buy things as cheaply as possible? Year after year, I see more and more stuff no longer USA made. Talk to the average person, and they are all for it if it means they save $2.

I used to live and work in China, and I can tell you we should have pulled the plug on them 20+ years ago. Tiananmen should have been the trigger.

In US politics, when rules were loosened to allow greedy US companies to offshore to China, many politicians would be uneasy allowing work to flow to China, but they would usually come around when sold on the idea of "democracy through capitalism" well here we are 30 years later, our landfills being filled with cheap Chinese stuff and few Americans working in productive industries. Those of you who lament on the Trade War need to read up on Xi Jin Ping. Quite possibly the most dangerous regime that the west now faces.

Worse, much of our USA IP has been stolen from us and in many cases weaponized against the west.

Soberingly, it is sad that Americans don't realize when they buy Chinese made products, a little bit of that money goes to a repressive regime who uses it to build weapons to destroy the west. China points nukes at us, and they are very open that militarily, we are an adversary.

The fact that China has always considered us a military adversary makes me very upset at Americans who don't get the gravity of that. And a few times I have heard ignorant people say "well, remember Japan 50 years ago? China will be just like that, just you wait" yeah right. Japan is a US ally. China is NOT.

And all the OP can concern themselves with is that maybe prices for some stuff will go up??

Thank you Trump for trying, but you are not trying hard enough. The good news? It seems that even Democrats have got major beef with China, so China will not be able to rest easy if Trump loses 2020. See, this isn't a political rant because this is a rare thing that both sides in USA can agree on.

Unfortunately, we are likely too late. We care more about gender pro-nouns than we care about realizing the beast from the East is about to take our lunch!

They need us like we need them. I mean if they cut us off. How are they gonna pay the workers for those factories? I mean if workers arenít getting paid theyíre not putting food on the table and things will get ugly. Far East version of the Arab Spring and the Chinese government doesnít want that.

Kind of like the mutually assured destruction we had with the USSR in the Cold War. We want cheap stuff from China so we donít pick a fight with China. They want to keep the workers paid and happy and not revolting against their government so they donít want to pick a fight with us. Trump is a wild card so no one knows exactly whatís gonna happen about it. Will we keep at peace relying on each other as usual or will we start getting ugly and cut each other off making stuff more expensive for everyone involved?

Iím not too worried since if the ďDragonĒ do decide to do anything militarily, theyíll end up hurting themselves. We all know what happened in Arab Spring. So does Xi Jin Ping.

That $2 saved can make a difference between keeping the lights on or going dark for many people. Most important getting food for your kids or letting them go hungry.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 09:52:50 AM by FGS » Logged

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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #23 on: June 13, 2019, 09:48:25 PM » Author: takemorepills

That $2 saved can make a difference between keeping the lights on or going dark for many people. Most important getting food for your kids or letting them go hungry.

I guess if your country has outsourced all of its prosperity?

Although, what most people do with that $2 is just buy more Chinese junk.

Go look at the lives of people with children on reduced/free lunch programs. The parents often have nice smartphones, big chrome wheels on their car and expensive tattoos. But they can't afford to pay for their kids lunch? Is that the $2 you speak of?

Source: I was raised in the ghetto on food stamps.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #24 on: June 14, 2019, 07:11:41 AM » Author: FGS
I guess if your country has outsourced all of its prosperity?

Although, what most people do with that $2 is just buy more Chinese junk.

Go look at the lives of people with children on reduced/free lunch programs. The parents often have nice smartphones, big chrome wheels on their car and expensive tattoos. But they can't afford to pay for their kids lunch? Is that the $2 you speak of?

Source: I was raised in the ghetto on food stamps.

Ok then. So all the poor people with children on reduced/free lunch programs have big chrome wheels on their cars and nice smartphones. Nice of you bunching up everyone else with the few so called chrome rims owners. Roll Eyes

Itís not just $2. Letís say they have an old stove thatís about to go to greener pasture. Time to get a new one. A $300 Chinese stove or a $1000 all American (probably built by robots) stove? Thatís $700 worth of food, rent, and utilities.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #25 on: June 14, 2019, 09:18:29 AM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: FGS
Itís not just $2. Letís say they have an old stove thatís about to go to greener pasture. Time to get a new one. A $300 Chinese stove or a $1000 all American (probably built by robots) stove? Thatís $700 worth of food, rent, and utilities.
I personally would go for the cheaper end...not the cheapest $300 model, but something a bit better - say the $500 model.

And fact is, while it may be built in China or the US, or (wherever)...atleast some of the parts that make it up probably came from somewhere else.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #26 on: June 17, 2019, 12:53:21 AM » Author: GE101R
Why do people think it is their right to buy things as cheaply as possible? Year after year, I see more and more stuff no longer USA made. Talk to the average person, and they are all for it if it means they save $2.

I used to live and work in China, and I can tell you we should have pulled the plug on them 20+ years ago. Tiananmen should have been the trigger.

In US politics, when rules were loosened to allow greedy US companies to offshore to China, many politicians would be uneasy allowing work to flow to China, but they would usually come around when sold on the idea of "democracy through capitalism" well here we are 30 years later, our landfills being filled with cheap Chinese stuff and few Americans working in productive industries. Those of you who lament on the Trade War need to read up on Xi Jin Ping. Quite possibly the most dangerous regime that the west now faces.

Worse, much of our USA IP has been stolen from us and in many cases weaponized against the west.

Soberingly, it is sad that Americans don't realize when they buy Chinese made products, a little bit of that money goes to a repressive regime who uses it to build weapons to destroy the west. China points nukes at us, and they are very open that militarily, we are an adversary.

The fact that China has always considered us a military adversary makes me very upset at Americans who don't get the gravity of that. And a few times I have heard ignorant people say "well, remember Japan 50 years ago? China will be just like that, just you wait" yeah right. Japan is a US ally. China is NOT.

And all the OP can concern themselves with is that maybe prices for some stuff will go up??

Thank you Trump for trying, but you are not trying hard enough. The good news? It seems that even Democrats have got major beef with China, so China will not be able to rest easy if Trump loses 2020. See, this isn't a political rant because this is a rare thing that both sides in USA can agree on.

Unfortunately, we are likely too late. We care more about gender pro-nouns than we care about realizing the beast from the East is about to take our lunch!


I agree, 1000%.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #27 on: June 17, 2019, 03:51:21 PM » Author: FGS

I agree, 1000%.

So youíre agreeing we should remove the means thatís keeping China and USA from going to full blown war (possibly going nuclear) with each other? The kind of where China needs our dollars and the USA needs their products. And no the Cold Warís nuclear Mutually Assured Destruction is not likely to work with China/USA like it did with Russia/USA. China has less than 300 atom bombs whilst the USA have about 6500 of the things. M.A.D. only works when both countries are about evenly matched in weapon numbers. Russia has 6800 of them. (Dunno about ready to fire vs in storage bombs but thatís the total of them I got from Google.)

The last thing any sane man would want regardless of political party or country of birth is a Third World War. We all must do everything to keep it from starting up. Even if it means buying from China as usual.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #28 on: June 17, 2019, 08:23:04 PM » Author: takemorepills
Your logic is terrible. Keep buying from China, otherwise we may get into a war with them?

First off, China won't start a war with us over that. China is not into projecting power outside of their own sphere. They only care about Taiwan, HK and relations that they can benefit from. China is a very selfish country, and they wouldn't want to be destroyed by starting a war with another major nuclear power.

Have you seen what China is doing to HK right now?

Do you know what China wants to do to Taiwan?

They will do what they want, despite us being their customer. The more we buy from them, the sooner they can achieve their goal of conquering Taiwan and assimilating HK ahead of schedule.

Have you seen "Black Mirror"? That's China TODAY. In China they use WeChat to pay for most things, if not all things that are e-pay. If you own an electric car in China, which many do, you would use WeChat (Wei Xin) to pay for charging your car. If you say Xi Jin Ping looks like Pooh, or talk about Hong Kong protests your WeChat account gets suspended, and your ability to pay for charging your electric car, buying groceries, getting airplane ticket...is all shut down too. Have you ever seen an electric car charging station that can take real money? Nope.

So, you want to give money to this regime because you think they'll attack us?

Modern mentality is so annoying. In Seattle, the City government will ban official business with any anti-gay region in USA. But, I keep suggesting to them to no longer buy Chinese made products with City tax dollars. They ignore me. They want to ban travel to West Virginia or Missouri for LGBTQ reasons, but if you explain to them that being gay in China=Mental Illness and NO rights at ALL, or the political prisoners, or the suppression of Muslims (for some reason LGBTQ in Seattle like Muslims....so weird) they don't care. I think Americans don't care whenever you call into question their ability to buy cheap crap.

You know, they say stuff like "to avoid conflict we should just keep buying stuff". Yeah, right!
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #29 on: June 18, 2019, 07:00:53 PM » Author: FGS
Your logic is terrible. Keep buying from China, otherwise we may get into a war with them?

First off, China won't start a war with us over that. China is not into projecting power outside of their own sphere. They only care about Taiwan, HK and relations that they can benefit from. China is a very selfish country, and they wouldn't want to be destroyed by starting a war with another major nuclear power.

Have you seen what China is doing to HK right now?

Do you know what China wants to do to Taiwan?

They will do what they want, despite us being their customer. The more we buy from them, the sooner they can achieve their goal of conquering Taiwan and assimilating HK ahead of schedule.

Have you seen "Black Mirror"? That's China TODAY. In China they use WeChat to pay for most things, if not all things that are e-pay. If you own an electric car in China, which many do, you would use WeChat (Wei Xin) to pay for charging your car. If you say Xi Jin Ping looks like Pooh, or talk about Hong Kong protests your WeChat account gets suspended, and your ability to pay for charging your electric car, buying groceries, getting airplane ticket...is all shut down too. Have you ever seen an electric car charging station that can take real money? Nope.

So, you want to give money to this regime because you think they'll attack us?

Modern mentality is so annoying. In Seattle, the City government will ban official business with any anti-gay region in USA. But, I keep suggesting to them to no longer buy Chinese made products with City tax dollars. They ignore me. They want to ban travel to West Virginia or Missouri for LGBTQ reasons, but if you explain to them that being gay in China=Mental Illness and NO rights at ALL, or the political prisoners, or the suppression of Muslims (for some reason LGBTQ in Seattle like Muslims....so weird) they don't care. I think Americans don't care whenever you call into question their ability to buy cheap crap.

You know, they say stuff like "to avoid conflict we should just keep buying stuff". Yeah, right!

You think theyíre waiting for a right time to invade Taiwan and Hong Kong? Get as much money from us in meanwhile until they get enough to buy/make military gear to invade those two places. Like theyíre $50b short of reaching their required $1000b for an invasion. Yeah, right! Itís not that easy.

Buying fighter planes and ships is easy. Pay a few millions for them and itís theirs. Paying wages, fuel, maintenance, and so on? Where the money will come from once the largest slice of the pie of money going into China is gone. (Not to mention other currencies might do the same and cut off China as well lest they incur the wrath of Uncle Sam.)

Letís not forget all those factories and their workers going idle as the USA will certainly stop all imports of Chinese stuff into the USA after China invaded Taiwan and HK. How are they gonna pay rent, utility bills, food, and so on? Theyíll go hungry inevitably and theyíll get angry at their government for its stupidity of invading Taiwan angering Uncle Sam. Theyíll revolt against the government Arab Spring style. The last thing the government needs whilst being super busy with the invasions and defending against Uncle Samís revenge for attacking its allies, is to deal with millions of hungry and angry Chinese former factory workers. They needs every able soldiers to fight off Uncle Sam.

China could have easily invaded Taiwan while the USA was occupied with its many wars over the last 70 years. It hasnít done so, why? Because the China/USA version of M.A.D. works. Given the idiotic tariff war started by Trump. That M.A.D. is on rather shaky grounds. So I dunno where itíll go from here now.

WeChat sounds awfully like our Credit Report & Score but more tighter than normal.

Electric car charging stations. Donít the cars have both fast charging (the stations is a must) and slow charging (just plug into any old 120v outlet nearby)? Iíve heard of Teslaís Supercharger stations in the news. Usually involving idiotic guys with micro appendage between the legs driving diesels trucks parking in the reserved spaces for Tesla cars and causing trouble for everyone like revving their engines making them belch black sooty exhaust or just parking in such a way the Tesla drivers canít plug in.
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Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
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