Author Topic: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA?  (Read 1588 times)
WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!


Worldwide HIDCollectorUSA
Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « on: November 01, 2020, 05:26:55 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Does anyone know if it is illegal to install a European HID lamp in a US fixture on a commercial property even though the lamp is installed in a fixture with an ideal ballast? For example, is it considered illegal to install a British 70w SON-E or SON-T lamp in a US 70w M98 metal halide fixture that is mounted on a commercial building?
Logged

Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

Medved
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #1 on: November 01, 2020, 06:08:20 PM » Author: Medved
The electrical Code requires all components of electrical installations to bear certification (at least as "listed") of UL or similar body in order to be considered code compliant. Problem is, this "listing" is quite costly process, so manufacturers pay it only for products intended for sale where this bears any authority. And that is not the European market. So lamps intended for European market will just lack this formal step. And any of these certifications are valid only when you follow the manufacturers instruction. And the ones on a S56 ballast will say "use only S56 bulb" - European 150W HPS does not bear any S56 designation on it at all, even when it is the same rating (however there is a technical difference - mainly to manufacturing tolerances and thermal stability, but I dont think it would be completely out of reach to produce a lamp meeting requirements of both European 150W HPS, as well as the US S56)

Now many jurisdictions mandate all generic (so not things that are really unique to thebusiness; things like bathrooms, workers parking spaces or lights generally wont qualify as anything special) installations in commercial premises to be code compliant (part of OSHA regulations). It does not limit to electricity, but includes building construction, gas, water, sewer and other process installations - each has their own variant of "Code", which put requirements on how the designs have to look like, how the related signage or documentation has to look like, all aiming for the i stallation to be safe and maintainable by any proffessional of the given trade. Mainly the last is most frustrating, as it governs things that do not directly influence the safety, but may lead to a confusions and judgement errors during later work performed by someone else (e.g. wire color codes are an example - the electricity does not care if you use yellow/green for a phase line and black for the PE grounding, it will be perfectly working as it should, but once someone will dig into it later, he will be up to nasty surprize).

So using European lamps will made the lanterns non code compliant, even when the lamp will have equal properties
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!


Worldwide HIDCollectorUSA
Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #2 on: November 01, 2020, 06:10:23 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Can somebody get imprisoned for performing commercial installations of European HID lamps in American fixtures?

Does this same thing also apply to private installations of European HID lamps in US fixtures? Will someone get imprisoned for using a European HID lamp in a fixture in a private installation in the USA?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 06:13:43 PM by WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA » Logged

Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

Medved
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #3 on: November 02, 2020, 01:32:43 AM » Author: Medved
Not directly, but
- your premises could be officially shut down for OHSA violations. Yes, official inspectors would have to dig into these details first (that isnt normal at all, so it would have to be a result of some explicit complaint or so)
- when an accident happens and some of the thing goes bad for whatever reasons, you may be held criminally liable.

Yes, it is not that likely something like that would happen, but one crazy ex-employee you had to fire (because e.g. repeatedly causing dangers by his behavior,...) and the hell may break loose...


Logged

No more selfballasted c***

WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!


Worldwide HIDCollectorUSA
Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #4 on: November 02, 2020, 01:39:57 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Not directly, but
- your premises could be officially shut down for OHSA violations. Yes, official inspectors would have to dig into these details first (that isnt normal at all, so it would have to be a result of some explicit complaint or so)
- when an accident happens and some of the thing goes bad for whatever reasons, you may be held criminally liable.

Yes, it is not that likely something like that would happen, but one crazy ex-employee you had to fire (because e.g. repeatedly causing dangers by his behavior,...) and the hell may break loose...

What if it was the case that some inspector discovers that a European HID lamp was installed in a wall pack on a commercial building that I own if I was a commercial real estate person?
Logged

Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

Medved
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #5 on: November 02, 2020, 02:17:11 AM » Author: Medved
What if it was the case that some inspector discovers that a European HID lamp was installed in a wall pack on a commercial building that I own if I was a commercial real estate person?

As with any other code violation:
At first the will order you to make it code compliant, what means replace to a lamp approved for the fixture. Because this isn't directly a high danger, he wont shut down the property yet.
If heget an impression you are ignoring that, he will check it the next time.
If still not fixed, there will be a citation and fine, with a new order to fix it.
After few cycles the autjority will orderyou to close your business till you show the things are rectified.
If you keep still ignoring them, it may escalate to a criminal case (made around a willfull endangerement, failing to obey authorityorders, as police will get involved at some point too).
Dont know the exact legaleese terms, but I guess youget the idea.
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!


Worldwide HIDCollectorUSA
Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #6 on: November 02, 2020, 02:30:09 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Can this same thing happen with private residential installations? For example, could I be arrested for using a European HID lamp in a backyard yardblaster?
Logged

Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

Medved
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #7 on: November 02, 2020, 02:49:45 AM » Author: Medved
It is still a code, so a safety violation, so seen as a safety risk.
So unless something bad happens or there are building codes en force in your area that mandate periodic inspection, nobody will care.
There is one big difference:
If you are endangering only yourself, as it is the case of your home, it is your business.
But if you are endangering your employees, which are seen as the ones with less power, it becomes more at focus of authorities.
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

funkybulb
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


Re: Is it illegal to use a European HID lamp for commercial applications in the USA? « Reply #8 on: November 02, 2020, 10:21:26 AM » Author: funkybulb
 Look at sox lamp

  U know LPS ballast will have a ANSI number
 Start with a L and number.

    Well since the sox lamp been coming from england for a
 a while It just have EU marking

     Ok anothef good one is Fluorescent lamps  such as 36 watt
  58 watts and 70 watts fluorescent is use in beverage coolers in the stores

   Now some of my british fixture have i swap out the non UL
 240 volt ballast esp my 3 foot fitzegearld light pack 30 watt
 120 volt 60 Hz UL listed ballast.  And that means i can get to install my british fixture on my existing wiring.  If i had new house and installed this weird looking fixture than what inspector not acustom too.  They can say take that light down and not UL listed.  But having listed componets
Can Have greater chance of passing inspection.

  At Worldwidehidlamps this why we have regulation and fallow them.   Now if you experminting that means it never installed perminantly and have to be on cord and plug.  Now if you trying to sell somthing and market somthing then it have be sent to UL lab for Testing inorder to get a certfication.

 Let look at a Table lamp there so many homemade table lamps out in the USA that it not funny.   But It built with UL listed componets.  That when lighting designers comes in
Selected the UL listed components
 Then let say they sack up bunch of lone star Beer cans on lamp stems and then copper Texas theame custom lamp shades. Then get sold at a lamp shop or even inside a Texas truck stop.
Logged

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

Print 
© 2005-2024 Lighting-Gallery.net | SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies