[quoteThat's the real reason I hate L*D's, they have destroyed the rest of the lighting industry and taken away our choice to use anything else
[/quote]

The lighting industry didn't do this.  Ultimately the enviro wackos and their supporting political party pressured this course of action into play.  Two big political parties at play here in the USA.  The Conservatives, aka Republicans, who like choice and freedom to make educated choices, and the dang Liberals aka the Democrats, who think they know what is best for everyone and that people are too stupid to make their own choices, so they'll pass all sorts of laws to get their way.  Remember that.  
I happen to be a Conservative who loves the freedom of choice and likes to educate myself but still have a choice in the end, not forced into something.  I also love the planet.  I love trees, I love fresh air, I love wildlife, I love recycling and being able to make a positive difference by doing various things but I still HATE being told what I can and cannot do because they think they know better.

Now.  I recently moved into my first apartment.  And I got my first electrical bill.  And I realized I'm going to have to take some steps to save some more energy if I want to have a safe amount of money left over each paycheck after my bills are paid.  Enter in LED Bulbs and being more conservative with my heating/AC needs.  And it has helped.  Many many out there are in the same situation, so energy saving LEDs and CFLs are a blessing when we need bright light. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/12/20/trump-administration-just-overturned-ban-old-fashioned-lightbulbs/

[quoteThat's the real reason I hate L*D's, they have destroyed the rest of the lighting industry and taken away our choice to use anything else


The lighting industry didn't do this.  Ultimately the enviro wackos and their supporting political party pressured this course of action into play.  Two big political parties at play here in the USA.  The Conservatives, aka Republicans, who like choice and freedom to make educated choices, and the dang Liberals aka the Democrats, who think they know what is best for everyone and that people are too stupid to make their own choices, so they'll pass all sorts of laws to get their way.  Remember that.  
I happen to be a Conservative who loves the freedom of choice and likes to educate myself but still have a choice in the end, not forced into something.  I also love the planet.  I love trees, I love fresh air, I love wildlife, I love recycling and being able to make a positive difference by doing various things but I still HATE being told what I can and cannot do because they think they know better.

Now.  I recently moved into my first apartment.  And I got my first electrical bill.  And I realized I'm going to have to take some steps to save some more energy if I want to have a safe amount of money left over each paycheck after my bills are paid.  Enter in LED Bulbs and being more conservative with my heating/AC needs.  And it has helped.  Many many out there are in the same situation, so energy saving LEDs and CFLs are a blessing when we need bright light. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/12/20/trump-administration-just-overturned-ban-old-fashioned-lightbulbs/

WELL SAID!! I agree completely with your entire statement!!

The only problem is that 9 months AFTER the ruling , stores are STILL phasing out anything that isn't LED ! I doubt that the lamp manufacturers are going to start back making all of the previously eliminated lamps either .

 I agree that it should be MY CHOICE of what lighting I use in and around MY PROPERTY !  Even then , the local municipality can STILL in-act ordinances to control that . Someone here on LG posted a while back on a town that ruled that a homeowner couldn't have exterior lighting brighter than 800 lumens !   That in itself would eliminate 90% of most "normal exterior lighting" over 60 watts !

Yeah I feel like the lamp and ballast manufacturers are conveniently using the excuse of legislation and the popularity of LED to cut down on their lower profit margin older technology products like HID and fluorescent. You can also see the quality control on these non LED products drift too compared to NOS examples made around 10 years ago before LED took off.

To be honest I doubted the effectiveness of the lighting bans especially for more commercial lighting products like fluorescent and HID. Even without the bans a lot of places shifted to using and installing cheaper to run lighting.

Over here they stopped installing MV in the 80s and converted everything over to HPS in the 90s. By the time MV was banned in 2008 only a select few smaller towns still used MV. Same goes for magnetic T12 ballasts, when they banned them in 2010, very few new buildings would have been installing magnetic T12 fixtures, by the early 2000s most new lighting installed would be electronic T8.

Same goes for incandescent traffic signals too, the lamps are still made and can be bought, but the municipalities have for the most part switched to LED without a ban. In fact I was informed when I bought some traffic signal lamps that they haven't been ordered in the last 5 years.

Don't be naive to believe the incandescent bans really originated from any environmentalists. Simple said as far as I learned them, they are just not able to comprehend anything.

All the push came from the lighting industry: Incandescents were simply becoming way too cheap to get any profit on making them, but their regular customers did want them and were used for them being so cheap. They wanted to kill that unprofitable business since late 80's, but did not want to loose customers, so did not want to be the first one doing so. They forst introduced the "luxurious" lamp variants (the "soft tone",...) in an attempt to kick up the sales prices, but that did not lasted that long.
But then a bit of brainwashing of some stupid greenbrainers and viola, incandescents got banned, so all makers may get rid of that pet peeve and not worry their customers going elsewhere.

But for LEDs alone, it is just plain cost. Once it matured at least a bit and reached high volume production, you can not compete with practically anything against something that is cheap, efficient and could be tailored to whatever the application needs (color quality vs efficacy vs cost).

There is lots of talk in here about rights to let people to use whatever light source they desire but doesn't same go for manufacturers? They have right to chose what products they make. If they decide to stop making traditional light sources they have full right to do so. Even without bans, the diminish of traditional light sources would have happened. The bans only made it happen faster.

There is lots of talk in here about rights to let people to use whatever light source they desire but doesn't same go for manufacturers? They have right to chose what products they make. If they decide to stop making traditional light sources they have full right to do so. Even without bans, the diminish of traditional light sources would have happened. The bans only made it happen faster.

Well, the bans were just designed to make that happen faster, without a thread of other competitors stepping in and filling the market voids. It was nothing else than a trust plot, disguised as "eco improvement"

The lighting industry didn't do this.  Ultimately the enviro wackos and their supporting political party pressured this course of action into play.

I never said the lighting industry did it, although I have a strong feeling that Philips had a lot of influence. But please don't turn this discussion into a political debate. I am not in the US and we have enough political problems of our own.

There is my opinion:

I generally don't have a hate about LED, but there are just many downsides of them:

First of all, this is about discharge bulbs compared to LED. As in discharge you always get that good neat warm up, unlike LEDs they just turn on, and all done. Boring.

Second of all, it depends on who makes them. There can be some really good quality made LEDs but some also are very badly made, such as flickering after a few months, a few LEDs dying after some time in use and also absolute all LEDs dead after functioning after some time in use. Overall in Incandescent, they only just turned off when the bulb died. No flickering from what I know of. Same goes to discharge bulbs, except when they're about to die, sometimes they turn on for 1-5 mins and then turn off for a 1 min, then turn back on for 1-5 mins and then turn of again, and repeated that process but the bulb dies.

Here is the good side I have with LEDs:

First of all, LEDs are usually either cold or warm when on, depending on colour temperature. On Incandescent and Discharge, when they turned on for a few minutes, touching it is absolutely painful, and maybe may even burn your hand...due to the temperature they release when working.

And that's all for mine. So I could say it's mid, depending on what manufacture makes the LED bulbs.

Did I commit any mistakes by accident? Let me know if so.

To me, LEDs feel like diet, sugar-free versions of my favourite soft drinks that got ruined by the UK sugar tax (looking at you, Pepsi…)

OMG, this ghost thread revived again (

And you are asking WHY people are leaving L-G now (

That’s just the way it is.

OMG, this ghost thread revived again (

And you are asking WHY people are leaving L-G now (