Author Topic: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains  (Read 515 times)
WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « on: December 06, 2021, 11:30:24 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
When I was doing some searches on Brazil and Mexico's mercadolibre websites for ceiling fans, I have noticed that some of those ceiling fans have interesting designs such as 3 blade fans with mushroom style light kits found in Mexico and 3 blade fans with torpedo style light kits in Brazil, which are virtually nonexistant in the USA and Canada. As I looked at their voltage ratings, I have noticed some of them being rated for a 127v 60hz mains supply to suit the corresponding country's mains supply. As I have seen some videos of people telling you to never use ceiling fans on dimmer switches, should I have any electrical issues associated with running 127v 60hz ceiling fans on 120v 60hz mains despite the voltage difference being less than 10%?

Here is a Mexican 56 inch 3 blade fan rated for a 127v 60hz mains supply that is equipped with a mushroom light kit:

https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-630692696-ventilador-industrial-con-luz-prometheus-blanco-masterfan-

I find it unique since it is designed for 5 speeds unlike the American and Canadian 3 speed ceiling fans.

Here is a Brazilian 3 blade ceiling fan with a torpedo style light kit designed for 127v 60hz mains as well:

https://www.mercadolivre.com.br/ventilador-de-teto-ventisol-wind-branco-com-3-pas-de-plastico-96cm-de-dimetro-127v/p/MLB6057773?pdp

Should I be okay with operating these fans on North American 120v 60hz mains without electrical issues if they are designed for 127v 60hz mains even if I risk electrical code violations for having them installed in an American or Canadian home?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 11:33:40 PM by WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA » Logged

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Medved
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 01:22:20 AM » Author: Medved
Running a ceiling fan on a dimmer switch is not the same as running it on a dimmer switch.
The ceiling fan has quite large high frequency inductive component in its impedance, which causes commutation problems with triacs (the current does notrise steep enough for the triac to turn ON properly when fired) and makes voltage overshoots when the triac switches off (the triacs switch of themself at certain nonzero "holding" current). Both these effects together tend to fry the triac (on overvoltage) and the control circuit (mainly the potenciometer) when these issues happen.
Plus some fans may happen to be arranged so the capacitor forms a HF resonator, forming a HF oscillator with the dimmer (mainly when the triac misbehaves) and build up high voltage, above what the capacitor tolerates, so frying it.
You may mitigate these issues by providing sufficient pure resistive load parallel to the fan, but there we are talking about 2..3x the fan power at least.
You may, of course, redesign the dimmer to work well with the fan (replace the triac for low holding current, snubberless inductive load rated type, design proper snubber, redesign the control to provide useful control range, flip the control logic so the fan always starts high after powered on), but than in fact means you have made a fan speed controller out of a dimmer switch, because such modified dimmer won't work well as a practical lamp dimmer anymore.
In fact there are products sold exactly for that purpose (to control fan speed).
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2021, 04:16:22 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
You did not answer my question here directly. I would really like to know if a ceiling fan rated for 127v 60hz operation would have any issues running on a 120v 60hz line voltage.
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #3 on: December 10, 2021, 12:24:02 PM » Author: Medved
So I misunderstood the question: I thought zou want to run a "120V" fan on 127V with a dimmer intended to reduce the voltage (that wouldn't work because of the dimmer).

Otherwise 120 and 127V are so close to each other (as small motors like fans are concerned) you can connect it directly without any worries.
Fans using a shielded pole type motor you can use even on 50 vs 60Hz without problems either (a "120V 60Hz" fans in series on 1150V/50Hz like two identical ones in series on a 230V mains).
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takemorepills
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #4 on: December 11, 2021, 12:09:47 AM » Author: takemorepills
120v, 127v, shouldn't matter. At least the frequency is a match.

Have you checked your home voltage? Mine is a touch over 125v.... so I would reckon that'd be a good match for a 127v device. But I would expect no issues even if the voltage were lower.
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joseph_125
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #5 on: December 11, 2021, 02:47:35 AM » Author: joseph_125
Yeah to be honest since the frequency is the same, 120v or 127v nominal voltage is close enough to not really matter. If you're really insistent on getting exactly 127v, I suppose a boost transformer or a variac set to 127v will work. Most 120v variacs will output 0-140v.
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #6 on: December 11, 2021, 05:06:03 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
In that case, it would be safe to operate Mexican and some Brazilian ceiling fans in North America on 120v 60hz mains even though installing them might violate electrical codes.
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Re: 127v 60hz ceiling fan on 120v 60hz mains « Reply #7 on: December 11, 2021, 04:02:43 PM » Author: Medved
I would be worried why they "are violating the US code", what is hiding there. For sure the voltage rating isn't the real problem. Make sure it is really just the missing "paperwork" (certifications,...), so they are otherwise safe and sound...
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