Author Topic: Odd question regarding ballasts  (Read 4564 times)
Larry
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Re: Odd question regarding ballasts « Reply #15 on: February 06, 2014, 09:46:42 PM » Author: Larry
Hey Everyone,

     I'm new here and think the idea of a reproduction RF fixture is a great idea.

     My $0.02 is that using two F40T8s on independent T8 IS ballasts is the way to go.  These are readily available parts and the only missing piece is a "blinker" box to independently blink the power to the two ballasts to mimic preheat.  Larry, if your blinking strategy doesn't work out I can design a small electronic module to do this.

     While not the best thing for the lamps and ballasts, I don't think blinking a couple times on start-up will be too bad.  My wife has an art studio lit with two 2x32W T8 fixtures.  They originally had cheap, tiny ballasts that only heat one end of the tube.  One died recently so I replaced it with a standard 2 lamp T8 IS ballast.  These lights get cycled at least 4 times a day and they have had the original lamps for at least 4 years.  Based on this, I think the idea of blinking them should still give reasonable lamp life.

      Anyway, just my thoughts, and I hope this works out well for you.  I think between antique car/gas station memorabilia collectors and WWII collectors and museums, this fixture could have a lot of appeal. ;D


Yeah I thought about a down sized 40 watt RF fixture also, but while it would look good, it would not be like the original. I figure if going to all the expense, might as well make a full sized fixture.
The RF fixture is really a odd size of six foot with a five foot bulb and being different is a plus in this case, the more different the better and anyone that has ever seen one of these big beasts remembers it for sure.
It was the SHO fixture of its day, as far as I can tell it was the first high output fluorescent fixture ever made.

As far as the blinking part on startup, it was just an idea to check the feasibility of it.
I have gained so many good ideas from everyone here, it has pointed me to a more clear vision of which way to go.

I am still in the thinking stage as it is cheaper to make mistakes on paper than in the work shop. :D

Thanks.

BTW I am new here too.
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Larry
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Re: Odd question regarding ballasts « Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 12:59:56 AM » Author: Larry
Well I guess they do make a T10 five foot bulb.
GE 39157 135-watt F60T10/CW T10.
The original 1941 Westinghouse RF fixture uses a five foot F85T10 bulb.

The bulb internals are different of course but the diameter and length are the same.
Wow how about that? :o



« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 01:42:28 AM by Larry » Logged

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Medved
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Re: Odd question regarding ballasts « Reply #17 on: February 07, 2014, 04:41:19 PM » Author: Medved
@mbulb146:
Building anything for yourself could be quite easy, but when selling it, you have to face the mandatory certification and there we are talking about $1000's per model. Quite out of reach, unless you are ready to sell 100's of pieces of the same model.

What could be easier, is the use of an of-the-shelf SELV (e.g. 12VDC) power supply and then do all the effects with LED's hidden inside a 5foot long, 10/8 inch diameter glass tube. As all the custom stuff will be at the safe voltage, there is no such certification burden anymore. But the down side, that does not look as authentic as the real fluorescent.
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Re: Odd question regarding ballasts « Reply #18 on: February 07, 2014, 05:12:17 PM » Author: Larry
@mbulb146:
Building anything for yourself could be quite easy, but when selling it, you have to face the mandatory certification and there we are talking about $1000's per model. Quite out of reach, unless you are ready to sell 100's of pieces of the same model.

What could be easier, is the use of an of-the-shelf SELV (e.g. 12VDC) power supply and then do all the effects with LED's hidden inside a 5foot long, 10/8 inch diameter glass tube. As all the custom stuff will be at the safe voltage, there is no such certification burden anymore. But the down side, that does not look as authentic as the real fluorescent.


Hi Medved

I agree, but I have figured out a way around this. (I think)

The fixture would be sold without any Ballast, bulbs or wiring.
It would just be a empty metal box.
You could use it for a flower planter or snow plow blade for your truck if you wanted to.

A separate kit not sold with the fixture would be available with a ballast and some wiring.
It is just some parts in a pasteboard box.

If a person wanted to, they could mount those parts in the metal box, add two bulbs and presto a light fixture.

Also if a person wanted to use their own magnetic ballast, a kit with just the four plugs with leads for the bulb ends would be available.

I do think this would work. :)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 05:50:59 PM by Larry » Logged

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Re: Odd question regarding ballasts « Reply #19 on: February 08, 2014, 12:50:24 AM » Author: Medved
I don't know how exactly it works in the US, but in Europe if you sell a kit, the requirements are exactly the same as when you were selling the final assembled unit, so selling that as a kit won't help as much. In the Europe it will be even way worse, as some lawyer may start to ask "How did you ensured, the user will assemble it correctly?" And that mean you have to have to submit the kit to a study assessing all the risks, what to pass is just a plain hypothetical possibility.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:14:12 AM by Medved » Logged

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Re: Odd question regarding ballasts « Reply #20 on: February 08, 2014, 02:11:58 AM » Author: Larry
I don't know how exactly it works in the US, but in Europe if you sell a kit, the requirements are exactly the same as when you were selling the final assembled unit, so selling that as a kit won't help as much. In the Europe it will be even way worse, as some lawyer may start to ask "How did you ensured, the user will assemble it correctly?" And that mean you have to have to submit the kit to a study assessing all the risks, what to pass is just a plain hypothetical possibility.

I know what you are saying, but if it come to that, the buyer could just could purchase their own electrical parts from somewhere else and install the parts themselves.

Actually supplying the electric components for the fixture would not be cost effective for me as I would have to mark up the price to cover the cost of buying them, stocking, making the kits up, selling them, plus the parts would be less expensive if bought on E bay or Amazon anyway.
So for me making a kit for the fixture would be neutral or negative from a profit stand point.

And if a antique lamp shop or electrical supplier wanted to make a kit for the fixture, they would be in a better position to do that than I would.

I am in a better position to have sheet metal bent, painted and assembled.
This would be worth while from a profit stand point.

Really I am only making and selling a metal box.
It could be used for anything.

Many assembled cars are like that here in the states where there really is no kit, but only a list of parts available, and the reader of the catalog picks out the parts he needs to make the car.
This way there is no kit involved and the person assembling the car takes all the risk if it don't work out right.
Really in the end you have no control what the buyer of the item is going to do with it.

Even if the fixture was sold fully wired, passed all codes, regulations and was certified with a UL listing, the end user could still electrocute themselves with it because they used it at the bottom of a swimming pool and a relative could file a law suite over it because there was no label on it stating not to use the fixture under water. ??? ::)

Here in the states people file all sorts of law suites over anything, even spilled hot coffee at a restaurant drive through.

That is the way it is now.
I manufactured and sold valves for six years and never had a problem or a liability claim against the products, but you would be amazed how many people misapplied the valves, and tore them up through poor installation procedures.
Any pipefitter knows not to tighten across a brass valve with a pipe wrench, but it happened all the time distorting the valve and twisting the operator out of alignment until it failed. ::)

Can't plan for everything unfortunately. :)  

 






 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 03:02:19 PM by Larry » Logged

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