Author Topic: Is HPS Pulse-Start?  (Read 7083 times)
Medved
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 01:01:28 AM » Author: Medved
Does it matter that it says "MAX. 4000V"?
That means the ignition pulse may be max 4kV, it is in fact a, insulation strength requirement for the ballast to lamp wiring.


@MoonPulse and electronic:
It is flat with voltage, but that may be for many ballasts confusing: Quite frequent (but still it is not the majority) feature among electronic ballasts is the identification of a wrong lamp wattage and "color stabilization". It monitors the arc voltage, mainly how it responds on power up or the current changes. As there is no voltage change with the MoonPulse, the ballast may behave erratically (mainly the "color stabilization" - what is nothing else than an algorythm sensing the arc voltage, which corresponds to the fill pressure and changes the feed current so, the pressure remains constant even with changing thermal balance of an aging lamp.) So if the arc voltage happens to correspond to a "too hot" lamp, such ballast will reduce the power till it's minimum limit and vice versa. And when it will be about equal to the voltage the ballast "wants", any fluctuation may cause the ballast to vary the arc current, so fluctuate the brightness.
So it depends on the ballast type. A "dumb" ballast with just constant power regulation (these may be even designed to operate both MH and HPS of the same power, even when the arc voltages and currents differ - as the ballasts regulates the current to keep the power constant) will work perfect, on some advanced "extra stable color" or "automatic lamp power adoption" ballast it may make problems.
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wattMaster
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #16 on: June 10, 2016, 07:11:55 AM » Author: wattMaster
Conclusion: Try a pulse start lamp out. If it doesn't strike, then it does not work with this ballast.
If it does strike, it may or may not work with this ballast if it has advanced features.
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BlueHalide
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #17 on: June 11, 2016, 01:16:50 AM » Author: BlueHalide
That Lumatek will reliably operate any HPS, MH, or CDM lamp of the ballast's rated wattage. It uses a processor to determine the type of lamp installed and operate it to spec voltage and current. There is no selector switch, just screw in the lamp and the ballast does the rest.
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #18 on: June 11, 2016, 09:07:16 AM » Author: wattMaster
That Lumatek will reliably operate any HPS, MH, or CDM lamp of the ballast's rated wattage. It uses a processor to determine the type of lamp installed and operate it to spec voltage and current. There is no selector switch, just screw in the lamp and the ballast does the rest.
How do you know?
And what's a CDM lamp?
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sol
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #19 on: June 11, 2016, 09:09:36 AM » Author: sol
Well being an electronic ballast there is a processor (computer) in there that senses what type of lamp you have and adjusts accordingly.

A CDM lamp is a MH lamp with a ceramic arc tube. It usually makes it possible to achieve higher CRI (colour rendering index) than traditional quartz arc tubes.
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #20 on: June 11, 2016, 09:20:12 AM » Author: dor123
I don't even heard about an HID electronic ballast which its microcontroller can sense the lamp type and adjusts the current and voltage accordinally.
My tracklight have a Philips Primavision for 70W CDM lamps, yet it have no problems operating my Osram HQI-TS 70W/WDL double ended QMH lamp, and I think that it can operate Osram NAV-TS 70W Super 4Y/6Y without problem.
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #21 on: June 11, 2016, 10:33:19 AM » Author: wattMaster
Well being an electronic ballast there is a processor (computer) in there that senses what type of lamp you have and adjusts accordingly.

A CDM lamp is a MH lamp with a ceramic arc tube. It usually makes it possible to achieve higher CRI (colour rendering index) than traditional quartz arc tubes.
Why not call them to confirm it?
That would be better than testing a CDM lamp because I can't get any right now.
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BlueHalide
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #22 on: June 11, 2016, 02:53:47 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Just call Lumatek, they will answer any questions you have about that ballast. Any ballast that operates both HPS and MH will also always operate CDM too. And your Lumatek definitely will too
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #23 on: June 11, 2016, 03:33:00 PM » Author: wattMaster
I'll just have to try a CDM lamp on it.
And would LED retrofit lamps work on this?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 04:16:17 PM by wattMaster » Logged

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BlueHalide
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #24 on: June 11, 2016, 04:24:29 PM » Author: BlueHalide
No LED, HID retrofit LEDs are typically only rated for line voltage (ballast bypassed) or Probe start magnetic (no ignitor). An LED retrofit lamp would either be fried on that Lumatek, or it will just be instantly shut down by the ballast's computer once it detects the incorrect lamp.
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #25 on: June 11, 2016, 04:47:36 PM » Author: wattMaster
No LED, HID retrofit LEDs are typically only rated for line voltage (ballast bypassed) or Probe start magnetic (no ignitor). An LED retrofit lamp would either be fried on that Lumatek, or it will just be instantly shut down by the ballast's computer once it detects the incorrect lamp.
Is it possible to make an LED lamp which does work with ignitors?
Assuming the LED is worth using.
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Ash
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #26 on: June 11, 2016, 05:58:33 PM » Author: Ash
There is no point, as Pulse MH and HPS surpass LED performance by big extent

There may be point for manufacturers - especialy the more dodgy ones - to make this as "a thing made to be sold not to be used" (which is a bad trend), based solely on the marketing of LEDs that they are "better than everything". That is, a retrofit lamp that is sold to the customer as a supposed upgrade, but once installed, provides poorer performance than the lamp it replaced



You can try to get around the ignitor however :

If the lamp is made to allways clamp the voltage to no more than a working HID lamp, the ignitor is supposed to stay off. The problems are :

 - To keep the voltage down, you must pull current from the ballast. You must pull enough to get the voltage down, but not too much to not overload the ballast. So, you are pretty much restricted to the same voltage and current as the HID lamp, so the same power. So with this approach you cant make an "energy saving" lamp, only same power lamp

 - Some ignitors might still make a random pulse once in a while - At starting, after a momentary power interruption or brownout, and so on. For the HID lamp this is harmless. For the LED it will be the end of it

You may then think of including a surge suppressing device in the LED lamp like an MOV, to sink those one-off pulses. But those devices have very limited life. If a HID ignitor does make those one-off pulses, it will probably be nearly every time the right conditions are happening - For example after every brownout. At an average of a brownout every few nights on an excellent power grid, or few brownouts every night on a not so good grid, the surge suppressor will be wasted in no time

And you may think of using passive components to absorb the pulse energy - Choke and Capacitor for example. This might work quite well, but those components take up space and weight, so make the entire contraption even more pointless than it allready is
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Re: Is HPS Pulse-Start? « Reply #27 on: June 11, 2016, 07:10:35 PM » Author: wattMaster
There is no point, as Pulse MH and HPS surpass LED performance by big extent

There may be point for manufacturers - especialy the more dodgy ones - to make this as "a thing made to be sold not to be used" (which is a bad trend), based solely on the marketing of LEDs that they are "better than everything". That is, a retrofit lamp that is sold to the customer as a supposed upgrade, but once installed, provides poorer performance than the lamp it replaced



You can try to get around the ignitor however :

If the lamp is made to allways clamp the voltage to no more than a working HID lamp, the ignitor is supposed to stay off. The problems are :

 - To keep the voltage down, you must pull current from the ballast. You must pull enough to get the voltage down, but not too much to not overload the ballast. So, you are pretty much restricted to the same voltage and current as the HID lamp, so the same power. So with this approach you cant make an "energy saving" lamp, only same power lamp

 - Some ignitors might still make a random pulse once in a while - At starting, after a momentary power interruption or brownout, and so on. For the HID lamp this is harmless. For the LED it will be the end of it

You may then think of including a surge suppressing device in the LED lamp like an MOV, to sink those one-off pulses. But those devices have very limited life. If a HID ignitor does make those one-off pulses, it will probably be nearly every time the right conditions are happening - For example after every brownout. At an average of a brownout every few nights on an excellent power grid, or few brownouts every night on a not so good grid, the surge suppressor will be wasted in no time

And you may think of using passive components to absorb the pulse energy - Choke and Capacitor for example. This might work quite well, but those components take up space and weight, so make the entire contraption even more pointless than it allready is
And that's the tip of the iceberg.
Then you have the issues of the LED itself.
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