Author Topic: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless?  (Read 1307 times)
WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « on: November 28, 2020, 02:23:57 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Personally, I consider many LED changeovers to be pointless because sometimes, the new LED lights have a lower luminous efficacy than the light source that they replace. I see this thing where a 300w LED fixture is said to be equivalent to a 1000w MH fixture and the results that I see are that the light levels get dropped to a fraction of the previous light levels since the 1000w MH lamp emits about 110,000 lumens while the LED fixture only emits 40,000 lumens. As a consequence, the areas with those new LED fixtures will be poorly lighted. I also seem to observe this with LED retrofit lamps for SOX low pressure sodium lamps. Initially, a 180w SOX lamp would emit 32,000 lumens while the equivalent 100w LED retrofit lamp would only emit about 15,472 lumens. When looking at the changeover from 1000w MH to LED, I only notice that the fixture efficacy increases only by 23 lumens per watt while from changing over from SOX to LED, the fixture efficacy DROPS by roughly 23 lumens per watt. Some governments around the world may use the energy savings as a reason to ban HID lighting because they will only look at the wattage savings and not the luminaire efficacy and ban HID lighting because they say that the older HID lighting did not meet any energy standards.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 02:35:59 PM by WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA » Logged

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AngryHorse
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #1 on: November 28, 2020, 03:06:19 PM » Author: AngryHorse
Forget the lumens with LED, that’s all invalid now, for instance, I could put an 11,000 lumen, 95 watt LED low bay UFO next to a 250 watt, 19,000 lumen metal halide low bay, and the UFO will blow it out of the water!
This is simply down to the way the diodes light an area, (straight down concentrated light)!, where as the light from the halides discharge tube is bounced all around the inside of the low bay, there’s no direct aim, no matter how good the reflector is engineered.

I’ve certainly had my eyes opened since using LED low bay UFO fittings for the first time at work!, as bad as it is to admit, they make HID low bays look so inferior now!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 12:50:37 AM by AngryHorse » Logged

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CreeRSW207
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2020, 04:01:07 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
Not favoring LED here but I don't see them being pointless since they consume less energy and have a much better CRI than HPS. The lower lumens are focused onto one area instead of spread out like HID making them appear brighter.
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 03:33:51 AM » Author: AngryHorse
Industrial HID low bays suffer another problem too, dust and dirt ingress, in the UK metal halide versions have to have a glass cover, ( in case of lamp explosion ), but because their not 100% sealed, dust in an industrial application is drawn in there by the lamps own heat, and quite quickly too!, (easily within a year), So it makes no difference if it’s got the best made CMH lamp in, as the light is totally defused by this.....
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 03:44:52 AM by AngryHorse » Logged

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Cole D.
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 09:46:05 AM » Author: Cole D.
Not pointless, but what I don't like is here they use low wattage AEL ATBX fixtures. They look ok, but they are super, super dim. Not an improvement over the GE HPS fixtures they replaced.
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 02:10:30 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Not favoring LED here but I don't see them being pointless since they consume less energy and have a much better CRI than HPS. The lower lumens are focused onto one area instead of spread out like HID making them appear brighter.

So are light levels actually increased by using the optical design?
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DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

CreeRSW207
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 08:45:31 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
Not pointless, but what I don't like is here they use low wattage AEL ATBX fixtures. They look ok, but they are super, super dim. Not an improvement over the GE HPS fixtures they replaced.
I find those pretty dim too, maybe that’s why York used 40w fixtures to replace some 50 and 70 watt HPS. Tho their LED conversion was odd in general!
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 08:48:03 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
So are light levels actually increased by using the optical design?
Basically what it is. It’s the lesser of two evils to convert since the HPS is evenly distributed but not as bright. The LEDs are not good a throwing their light in many places and just brightly light the ground beneath them.
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021, 05:33:17 PM » Author: The Cooper OVX
No! They are not pointless because LED is proven by the manufacturers and studies that LED is better for the environment and more energy efficient than HID and other sources. LED focuses its light on the road while HID spits light out all over the place.
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CreeRSW207
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 07:15:20 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
No! They are not pointless because LED is proven by the manufacturers and studies that LED is better for the environment and more energy efficient than HID and other sources. LED focuses its light on the road while HID spits light out all over the place.
LED lights the base of the pole and doesn’t spread around. It’s good for a small road but not a 4 lane highway.
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Rommie
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Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #10 on: January 13, 2021, 12:03:06 PM » Author: Rommie
No! They are not pointless because LED is proven by the manufacturers and studies that LED is better for the environment and more energy efficient than HID and other sources. LED focuses its light on the road while HID spits light out all over the place.
All I can say to that is come and look at what they've installed around here. The fixtures are wrongly spaced, at the wrong height and throw light everywhere, they are simply cheap crap glare bombs. They do not light the pavement (sidewalk to you lot over the pond), just patches of roadway, with black spaces in between the columns. It is so bad we do not feel safe going out at night any more.

They ripped out perfectly serviceable HPS lanterns to fit this crap and the failure rate of them is astounding; some have failed within a month of installation. Meanwhile, a solitary HPS lantern we can see from our kitchen window (the only one left) has been dayburning for the best part of a year and still lights the surrounding area better than the nearest half a dozen L*D's.

As for the environmental aspect, have you considered the electronic waste when the entire fixture including driver has to be thrown out as well as the L*D's when they fail..?

I'm not getting into an argument, just saying how it is around here.
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