Author Topic: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter?  (Read 2930 times)
thelightingman
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Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « on: February 25, 2021, 09:58:18 PM » Author: thelightingman
I just want to know if you can for a long period of time with the starter or if you have to remove it. I'm new here so I thought this was a good first question.
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theroadrunner556
Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #1 on: February 25, 2021, 10:07:46 PM » Author: desktoptrashcan
No, it is not. You will destroy the starting electrode and cause lamp failure. Take out the ignitor before putting the lamp on the ballast.
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 10:08:52 PM » Author: thelightingman
Thank you. Not to mention, I am running it on a 250 watt hps ballast. Will that destroy it?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 10:12:23 PM by thelightingman » Logged

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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 10:40:07 PM » Author: thelightingman
No, it is not. You will destroy the starting electrode and cause lamp failure. Take out the ignitor before putting the lamp on the ballast.

How many years will the bulb last on the 250 watt ballast now that the starter is removed?
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #4 on: February 26, 2021, 12:16:38 AM » Author: desktoptrashcan
That would depend on the arc voltage and arc current of the ballast, At worst, it might shorten the lamp’s life. It won’t destroy it immediately though.
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #5 on: February 26, 2021, 12:19:29 AM » Author: thelightingman
That would depend on the arc voltage and arc current of the ballast, At worst, it might shorten the lamp’s life.

The arc voltage is 100v. Will that shorten it's life?
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #6 on: February 26, 2021, 12:49:46 AM » Author: desktoptrashcan
The arc voltage is 100v. Will that shorten it's life?

What’s the arc current?
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #7 on: February 26, 2021, 12:51:36 AM » Author: thelightingman
What’s the arc current?

It is in between 1.75 and 2.5 amps
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #8 on: February 26, 2021, 12:53:53 AM » Author: desktoptrashcan
It is in between 1.75 and 2.5 amps

The arc voltage and current of a 175W MV lamp is 130V at 1.5A. The current is too high, and the voltage is too low.
A better ballast substitution would be an M57 metal halide ballast.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 12:57:01 AM by desktoptrashcan » Logged
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #9 on: February 26, 2021, 12:56:50 AM » Author: thelightingman
The arc voltage and current of a 175W MV lamp is 130V at 1.5A. The current is too high, and the voltage is too low.

That's where it ran when I measured it just now. I originally just divided the wattage and voltage but that does not always give you an accurate measurement.
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #10 on: February 26, 2021, 12:57:50 AM » Author: desktoptrashcan
That's where it ran when I measured it just now. I originally just divided the wattage and voltage but that does not always give you an accurate measurement.

OK, it’s fine then. The lamp should be just fine.
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #11 on: February 26, 2021, 01:04:35 AM » Author: thelightingman
OK, it’s fine then. The lamp should be just fine.

Alright, cool. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
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Medved
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #12 on: February 26, 2021, 04:59:20 AM » Author: Medved
No, it is not. You will destroy the starting electrode and cause lamp failure. Take out the ignitor before putting the lamp on the ballast.

Actually this is not correct. There is no risk for the probe itself.
In fact if the MV lamp would be ignited only when cold, nothing will happen at all.
But that does not mean it is safe to run MV on a HV pulse start ballast, on the contrary, it is far more dangerous than just a starting probe failure would be.
When the lamp is cold, the breakdown voltage within the arctube is low, so it will just short out any higher voltage (the igniter is designed for exactly that to happen, so the igniter is safe), so no harm to anything.
But the problem arises when the arc extinguishes and the igniter starts to trigger.
The main problem is, the connection and metal structures arrangement and the eventual gas fill (or its lack of, ie if vacuum is used there) is designed so it withstand the voltages it is expected to be there, so no breakdown or discharge would ever happen there.
With HV pulse start lamps the lamp design counts on the presence of the high voltage of the ignitors (large distances, ionization suppression components in the outer gas mix or the use of hard vacuum,...). The consequence is, the outer fill can not be made as optimal for thermal management or phosphor chemical stabilization and e.g. the lamp is not as mevhanically rugged as it could be without these limitation (or needs higher assemble complexity so cost).
On the contrary because MVs are designed to be started without the HV pulses, the outer assembly and fill don't need to withstand that high voltage, so are more optimized towards lamp performance and ruggedness (and lower cost). Of course, when you expose such design to a HV from an ignitor under a condition where the arc tube wont restrict the voltage (because it is still hot so pressurized), the HV pulse may cause breakdown in the outer and so ignite an arc there.
Now unlike the arctube, the outer is not designed to handle the arc at all, so it will within a few second destroy the outer and even very likely cause the outer to explode and shatter the glowing red remains all around.
Obviously that is quite potent to cause quite severe injury directly, but as well as set the surrounding on fire.

So it is not because the probe, butbecause the lamp design as whole (mainly around the lead wire seals in the outer bulb) does not tolerate the high voltage. Ironically typical probe assembly would be able tohandle the high voltage well.

And the same danger is with MV retrofit HPS lamps, many used just penning mixture buffer to ignite at the ~230V OCV of an MV ballast. These may get destroyed by the HV ignitor the same way as MVs, even when they have no starting probe at all.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 05:03:10 AM by Medved » Logged

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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #13 on: February 26, 2021, 10:10:45 AM » Author: thelightingman
That makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Is it ok to run a 175 watt mercury vapor bulb on an hps starter? « Reply #14 on: February 26, 2021, 11:36:28 AM » Author: thelightingman
Here is the light on.
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