Author Topic: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors?  (Read 2808 times)
thelightingman
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Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « on: May 18, 2021, 09:59:13 AM » Author: thelightingman
I have been wondering because everyone on here and in general bashes them so bad but I never have a problem with them.
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 10:33:41 AM » Author: funkybulb
 It the UK and EU countries that dont use them  as they use screws to mechanically to connect wires in terminal blocks
  Or those push in wago connector that have pressure contact
 Of wires.  The wago is becoming poplular here. I dislike them
 Cause they dont do well in high current loads such as electric 
 Space heating.

  Twist on connectors such as wirenuts is good.  If you take the time and preperation and twist the wires up before u use them.
  It sad that sparkies get in a hurry just stick wires in wire nuts
  And then come find put later it worked one wire loose from the
 Connection.  And not doing it right first time will always kick you in the butt on call backs.
 
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 10:36:16 AM » Author: Rommie
I don't 'hate' them as such, I just don't think they're as reliable as choc-block or Wago-type connections. If crimp-on ferrules are used, then I believe the choc-block is the best for stranded wire, but for solid core I'll go for Wagos.

We used to get porcelain ones here back in the 60's but I haven't seen them for many years. I may be (and often am) wrong, but I don't believe wirenuts are permitted by regulations here, either. Certainly no UK electrician I know (and I know a few) would use them.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 10:38:49 AM by sox35 » Logged

Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 10:41:49 AM » Author: thelightingman
It the UK and EU countries that dont use them  as they use screws to mechanically to connect wires in terminal blocks
  Or those push in wago connector that have pressure contact
 Of wires.  The wago is becoming poplular here. I dislike them
 Cause they dont do well in high current loads such as electric 
 Space heating.

  Twist on connectors such as wirenuts is good.  If you take the time and preperation and twist the wires up before u use them.
  It sad that sparkies get in a hurry just stick wires in wire nuts
  And then come find put later it worked one wire loose from the
 Connection.  And not doing it right first time will always kick you in the butt on call backs.

Oh, ok. I always twist the wires together before putting the twist on connectors on.


I don't 'hate' them as such, I just don't think they're as reliable as choc-block or Wago-type connections. If crimp-on ferrules are used, then I believe the choc-block is the best for stranded wire, but for solid core I'll go for Wagos.

We used to get porcelain ones here back in the 60's but I haven't seen them for many years. I may be (and often am) wrong, but I don't believe wirenuts are permitted by regulations here, either. Certainly no UK electrician I know (and I know a few) would use them.

Ok, that's understandable. I was asking the question because I have always used them and see lots of people bash them for being "unsafe".
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #4 on: May 18, 2021, 11:50:29 AM » Author: Mandolin Girl
I'm in agreement with Ria on this, if used correctly the twist on connectors are probably fine.  :wndr:
But that's the critical phrase, 'used correctly' compared to other types of connector wire nuts are very easy to install incorrectly, and that's where our dislike of them comes from.
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #5 on: May 18, 2021, 02:19:36 PM » Author: Medved
All connectors or items in general are sensitive for incorrect use. Even the chocko-blocks (when someone just puts there bare litz wires,...). Quite important factor in choosing the good product is, how people of the trade are familiar with it in the area. You may use some "better" connector, maybe use it correctly because you are well familiar with it, but first time someone else would be doing anything with it later on, in case it is alien product for him, there becomes huge risk he won't use it correctly anymore so cause troubles without even knowing it.
So in a "wirenut country" is better to use wirenuts, in "Wago country" Wagos and so on.
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #6 on: May 18, 2021, 02:21:42 PM » Author: Rommie
So in a "wirenut country" is better to use wirenuts, in "Wago country" Wagos and so on.
Also you have to comply with local regulations, or code as our US friends call it. I don't believe wirenuts are approved for use here, but as I said I could be wrong. But yes, if it's permitted, use what you are comfortable with.
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #7 on: May 18, 2021, 02:34:03 PM » Author: Medved
Also you have to comply with local regulations, or code as our US friends call it. I don't believe wirenuts are approved for use here, but as I said I could be wrong. But yes, if it's permitted, use what you are comfortable with.

If their maker provides "CE" (and really meets the requirements), they are.
A correct use guide has to be available from the manufacturer for any type of connector, otherwise it is not legal to sell (the guide is one of necessary conditions to meet). Or better to say in case of wrong usage an no guide available, the maker/importer would become liable for the consequences of the wrong use. That applies for wirenuts, as well as Wagos or chock blocks.
And generally there use to be pictograms on the package...
But still if it is a common thing, there is higher chance the electrician came into first contact with them under instructors supervision during training/education, so eventual bad habits got corrected. But if he get something new and misunderstand the picture guide, a problem becomes very close...
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #8 on: May 18, 2021, 02:45:51 PM » Author: Rommie
If their maker provides "CE" (and really meets the requirements), they are.
Remember we are no longer in the EU, so I am not sure what force the CE mark still has, assuming it is genuine and not "Chinese Export"  :wndr:
The UK wiring regulations are quite strict though, far more than most EU countries, although I confess I am not up to date with them, the books cost quite a lot to buy and as I'm no longer working I can't justify the expense.

I did find this link though when searching, which does say a fair bit on what UK electricians think of them.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:57:35 PM by sox35 » Logged

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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #9 on: May 27, 2021, 10:19:01 AM » Author: Foxtronix
Maybe the other connectors are more "fool-proof" compared to wirenuts?

'cause indeed, wirenuts require some skills to be used properly. There are different sizes, temperature ratings and even models for aluminium wiring!
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #10 on: May 27, 2021, 02:58:27 PM » Author: Medved
Remember we are no longer in the EU, so I am not sure what force the CE mark still has, assuming it is genuine and not "Chinese Export"  :wndr:
The UK wiring regulations are quite strict though, far more than most EU countries, although I confess I am not up to date with them, the books cost quite a lot to buy and as I'm no longer working I can't justify the expense.

I did find this link though when searching, which does say a fair bit on what UK electricians think of them.

Yes, it won't be "CE", it will be some British equivalent. And the standard behind wont have "European" but will have "United Kingdom" in its title.
But that is, where all the differences will end. The standards are always designed by the most powerful companies in the industry. Everywhere. Include the EU. Include the UK. And these companies have one thing in common: Most of their production gets exported. And all of them want the production to be the cheapest possible overall. That means they want to sell at home market the same products they are exporting elsewhere. So they need the standards of all places they are selling in, yielding exactly the same design. Just meeting the requirement in each place, without any extra cost (e.g. to cover a bit different standard valid somewhere else). So their best interest is to make sure the standards are the same in the content, even when formally independent.
Because of the power of those big companies, they will make sure that is what will happen.
So you may dream about "independent British standards", the reality will be the UK standards will be exactly the same as the EU ones, just under different name. And need separate formal certification. So with more bureaucratic hassle for anyone attempting any trade, mainly for the smaller players...
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #11 on: May 27, 2021, 03:02:39 PM » Author: Rommie
@Medved - That's all well and good, and you may well be right. But the fact remains that UK electricians are a conservative (with a small 'c') bunch and won't use what they don't trust. So you are unlikely to see wirenuts in use here any time soon.

And let's steer clear of anything that might just drift towards politics, shall we  :-* :love:
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #12 on: May 27, 2021, 03:54:34 PM » Author: Medved
@Medved - That's all well and good, and you may well be right. But the fact remains that UK electricians are a conservative (with a small 'c') bunch and won't use what they don't trust. So you are unlikely to see wirenuts in use here any time soon.

And let's steer clear of anything that might just drift towards politics, shall we  :-* :love:

Here the electricians are conservative as well. And for very good reason. Starting with something new means way higher risk of messing things up, so there should be very strong benefit to do that. Switching from one type of connector element to another is just not that, when all cost the same and (when used correctly) offer similar reliability. Or unreliability, when used incorrectly.

Ironically the only type I've not seen failed are the wire nuts. But it was so just because the only places I've met them were TWO machines (older precission temperature air blowers, used to heat up/cool down DUT IC chip for lab measurement; ballpark $30k or more for a new one), both imported from the US (where wirenuts are "at home"), so by far insufficient "sample" (plus biased in a way because the assembly was most likely done in a clean dedicated shop, free from the regular construction site mess). So completely nonrepresentative.

The others (wago, chock-block, "screw rings") i've met enough times to see a lot of failed ones, all because either severely overloaded (compromised protection) or incorrectly used or abused (wago style with wires repetitivelly pulled out and inserted back so loosing pressure in the spring, using bare litz wires, malformed hardened wires not allowing to tighten the screw properly, incorrectly inserted aluminum wire in the ring connectors,...).
So to me the conclusion was clear: Every type fail if not used correctly, so better use only the ones you are perfectly familiar with. In other words: Stay conservative in what you are using...
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #13 on: May 27, 2021, 11:28:18 PM » Author: Econolite03
The twist on wire nuts work fine for me, most electricians that I know still use them heavily whereas the Wago lever nuts are rarely used.
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Re: Why do people hate twist on wire connectors? « Reply #14 on: December 28, 2021, 04:09:45 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Sometimes, whenever I use wire nuts, the problem that I see is that when removing them, sometimes part of the wire gets stuck in them, which makes them no good anymore unless I remove the stuck wire with good pliers.
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