Author Topic: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc  (Read 559 times)
Zambi137
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Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « on: July 10, 2021, 12:02:30 PM » Author: Zambi137
Hi guys, I have just found a Sylvania SHP-S 100w SBY 9 twin arc lamp, and it has no voltage mentioned on it, nor is it on the box. I bought it here in the Netherlands, but when searching I can only find a newer version of it which says it's 100 volt. Is that even possible? I would like to know if I can burn it on my 240v gear.  :led2:
Thanks guys!!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 01:24:07 PM by Zambi137 » Logged
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #1 on: July 10, 2021, 12:18:19 PM » Author: Medved
There is no voltage mentioned,because it is a discharge lamp. And as any other discharge lemp, it can not be directly connected to any mains, but need a dedicated ballast designed to run that lamp type. In this case you need a 100W HPS ballast.

And no, you can not run it on 240W ballast, as that would overload the lamp severely, if it would run at all (240W is quite strange rating for an HID ballast, so even dunno what ballast it is you have).

Very simplified:
The thing is, (assume what ballast you have is a 250W HPS) the electrical characteristics of a 100W and a 250W HPS are so close, the 250W ballast will feed the 100W lamp by at least 250W power, overheating and very likely damaging (at least after a while) the way smaller 100W lamp.
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #2 on: July 10, 2021, 01:29:56 PM » Author: Zambi137
I know that, I have a pretty large collection of gas discharge lamps, and also of ballasts.
Also, I'm not asking about the wattage, but the voltage.
I can't use a 100volt ballast here because the normal voltage here is 220-240volt, I would need a transformer for that.

But what I'm really asking is, how do I know if it's 100-120V or 220-240 volt?
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #3 on: July 10, 2021, 02:47:58 PM » Author: Medved
I know that, I have a pretty large collection of gas discharge lamps, and also of ballasts.
Also, I'm not asking about the wattage, but the voltage.
I can't use a 100volt ballast here because the normal voltage here is 220-240volt, I would need a transformer for that.

But what I'm really asking is, how do I know if it's 100-120V or 220-240 volt?

There was a typo, right? (Saying 240w) That misled me to think you are someone new, entering the field :-) Now it is clear...

If the ballast is rated to run on 240V and designed for that 100W HPS, it is all what matters.

There is just a difference between kamps designed for north american market (120V) vs the rest: The "american" low power (150W and below) lamps are designed with arc voltages about 55V (so 1.9A for a 100W), the lamps for 230V markets with arc voltage of about 77V (so about 1.4A for a 100W), each requires ballast with different characteristics.
The type you listed had shown as an European spec lamp, so for 240V supply the ballast would be just a series choke (with an ignitor of course).
Powering that from 120V mains would need a transformer type ballast.
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #4 on: July 10, 2021, 04:40:58 PM » Author: Zambi137
yep, typo indeed  ;)

thanks for explaining :) How can I be sure this lamp has european specs? I'm not sure it is to be honest
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #5 on: July 10, 2021, 11:51:35 PM » Author: Medved

thanks for explaining :) How can I be sure this lamp has european specs? I'm not sure it is to be honest

Mainly because it is listed on European and not US/CA sites...



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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #6 on: July 11, 2021, 04:10:53 AM » Author: sox35
Frequency also has to be borne in mind. A ballast designed for use in the US will be intended for 60Hz supplies, while those intended for the UK/European market will be designed for 50Hz. From what I'm told (Medved will hopefully bear me out on this), 50Hz ballasts will usually run on a 60Hz supply (at the rated supply voltage, of course) but a 60Hz ballast will not run correctly on a 50Hz supply.

So a ballast intended for (say) a 70W US-spec HPS lamp with a 55V arc tube(ANSI code S62) will require a 60Hz supply at whatever voltage it has taps for (mine is 120V only, but some have taps for 208/240/277V and other weird voltages..!) but a ballast designed for a UK/EU spec lamp with a 100V arc tube on a 50Hz supply will run ok on a 240V 60Hz supply.

Or not, I could be completely wrong  :mrg:
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #7 on: July 12, 2021, 11:57:41 AM » Author: James
The 100V rating of your lamp is the Arc Voltage of the lamp itself, and this is only loosely related to the mains voltage.  The arc voltage is typically around half the mains voltage - so if you apply 230V mains to the complete system there will be about 100V drop across this lamp, and balance 130V drop across the ballast.

One of the main reasons for HID lamps having about half the mains voltage is because that leads to a more efficient, reliable, and longer-life system.  The highest practical system efficacies for a mercury lamp can be achieved when the lamp voltage is actually a little over half the mains voltage - so something around 110-140V across the lamp and 90-120V across the ballast in 230V countries.  If the lamp voltage was any lower, then to achieve a given power rating its operating current would have to increase and that would pull down the system efficacy, because heat losses and power wastage inside the ballast increase with the square of the current.

So you might think, why don't we therefore make all HID lamps with the highest possible voltage, something very close to 230V?  Well first of all, we always need to allow a certain volt drop across the ballast, otherwise it would have no function.  But as always in lamp technology, there is a catch which means that we have to target much lower lamp voltages.  The mains is not a constant 230V but cycles up and down from 0V to 324V 50 times per second.  The discharge lamp's voltage is clamped fairly constantly while it is running, which means that for all the moments when the mains voltage + volt drop across the ballast is less than the arc voltage, the arc extinguishes 100 times per second.  This is why there is flicker with HID and other discharge lamps.  The higher the arc voltage, the longer the 'off' period, and the more severe the flicker will become.  So to keep flicker within acceptable limits the arc voltage tends not to be made too high.

There is still another catch, in that when the discharge re-ignites after each half-cycle of the mains, a somewhat higher voltage is needed to re-ignite the arc than its normal plateau voltage.  The longer the duration of the off period, the higher this voltage required for re-ignition.  In other words if the arc voltage is made too high, the duty cycle will become so low that the re-ignition voltage will become so high that it is impossible to keep the arc burning.  This practical limitation is one of the main factors that sets the upper range for an HID arc tube's voltage.

The above facts are true for mercury and metal halide lamps, but not for high pressure sodium, which has a third catch.  HPS lamps are characterised by the inconvenience of a rising arc voltage during life.  That is due to the sodium loss reactions over time, which Max explained can be limited e.g. by the steatite ceramic tube in your Auralight lamp.  But the volt rise can never be stopped completely.  If we would make HPS lamps with the same arc voltages of around 110-140V like mercury lamps, then they would work perfectly when new, but as they age a moment would arrive very quickly when the reignition voltage would exceed the voltage available from the ballast.  And then the lamp would fail by cycling.  To delay the onset of cycling until a reasonable time, HPS lamps are therefore designed to have a lower initial voltage than mercury lamps (typically around 85-115V).  Your SHP-100W lamp will start out with an arc voltage of 100V when new, but after it has burned for some 50,000 hours it will have risen to something much higher, more like 125V - and when its voltage exceeds what its ballast can deliver it will then go out and cycle.

By the way, if your lamp is made in Europe or Latin America except Mexico then it will be for EU-spec ballasts, and if made in USA or Canada it will be for American-type ballasts.  In the 100W rating these can be different.  Due to North America having a lower voltage mains around 120V, the lamp voltages for smaller HPS lamps are also halved.  So if you have a European-style lamp it will have 100V arc voltage, and if you have an American-style lamp it will have a 55V arc voltage.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 12:05:35 PM by James » Logged
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #8 on: July 12, 2021, 12:24:38 PM » Author: sox35
A fascinating and informative explanation as always, James  :bulbman:
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #9 on: July 12, 2021, 01:52:44 PM » Author: Zambi137
@James thanks so much for the detailed explanation! I finally get how it works :) And my SHP is burning perfectly!!   :emh:
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #10 on: July 12, 2021, 02:13:56 PM » Author: Zambi137
.......
By the way, if your lamp is made in Europe or Latin America except Mexico then it will be for EU-spec ballasts, and if made in USA or Canada it will be for American-type ballasts.  In the 100W rating these can be different.  Due to North America having a lower voltage mains around 120V, the lamp voltages for smaller HPS lamps are also halved.  So if you have a European-style lamp it will have 100V arc voltage, and if you have an American-style lamp it will have a 55V arc voltage.

James, I have another question, I have a westinghouse mercury lamp, and the mark says 'westinghouse 100w HF100PD made in japan'. What's the deal with lamps made in Japan or China? Are these made for American ballasts? Thanks again ;)
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2021, 02:04:35 AM » Author: Medved
James, I have another question, I have a westinghouse mercury lamp, and the mark says 'westinghouse 100w HF100PD made in japan'. What's the deal with lamps made in Japan or China? Are these made for American ballasts? Thanks again ;)

Well, it is not that much where the lamp is made, but what market it is made for.
For example many GE lamps for the US market were made in Hungary (obviously those were made according to the "120V market" specs), even on the same production machinery as other types intended for European market.


Better to look for the certifications: If you see there "CE" and no "UL", that lamp is clearly intended for Europe.
If it has "UL", bears ANSI rsting code (Sxx for a HPS) or features symbols like Energy star, it is then clearly intended for the US/CA market.

Other signature could be what sites are offering that lamp type (if you google the lamp; usable only for the modern lamps sold in the age of the internet), if the site is clearly targetting US or CA market, again the lamps will conform to the North American specs and vice versa.
With some companies matching of the the brand name vs product numbering scheme reveals the intended market too:
OSRAM sold under OSRAM brand in Europe, but under the SYLVANIA brand in the US, but all used the German style part numbering scheme (HQIxx for MH,...)
SLI sells under SYLVANIA brand in Europe, but under "SLI lighting" in the US.
It is because some time ago the former global Sylvania sold its US operation, include the SYLVANI brand rights in the US region to OSRAM, but rentered the US market few years later again, but could not use the SYLVANIA name anymore, so they went for the SLI lighting.

The country of origin says nothing about the specs in the age of global manufacturing.


Regarding the MV lamp: MVs were fortunarely the same everywhere. But be aware, some types may look very close in the wattage rating number, but are completely incompatible (e.g. 75W rated for 0.6A vs 80W rated for 0.8A).
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #12 on: July 13, 2021, 02:19:42 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
The 100V rating of your lamp is the Arc Voltage of the lamp itself, and this is only loosely related to the mains voltage.  The arc voltage is typically around half the mains voltage - so if you apply 230V mains to the complete system there will be about 100V drop across this lamp, and balance 130V drop across the ballast.

One of the main reasons for HID lamps having about half the mains voltage is because that leads to a more efficient, reliable, and longer-life system.  The highest practical system efficacies for a mercury lamp can be achieved when the lamp voltage is actually a little over half the mains voltage - so something around 110-140V across the lamp and 90-120V across the ballast in 230V countries.  If the lamp voltage was any lower, then to achieve a given power rating its operating current would have to increase and that would pull down the system efficacy, because heat losses and power wastage inside the ballast increase with the square of the current.

So you might think, why don't we therefore make all HID lamps with the highest possible voltage, something very close to 230V?  Well first of all, we always need to allow a certain volt drop across the ballast, otherwise it would have no function.  But as always in lamp technology, there is a catch which means that we have to target much lower lamp voltages.  The mains is not a constant 230V but cycles up and down from 0V to 324V 50 times per second.  The discharge lamp's voltage is clamped fairly constantly while it is running, which means that for all the moments when the mains voltage + volt drop across the ballast is less than the arc voltage, the arc extinguishes 100 times per second.  This is why there is flicker with HID and other discharge lamps.  The higher the arc voltage, the longer the 'off' period, and the more severe the flicker will become.  So to keep flicker within acceptable limits the arc voltage tends not to be made too high.

There is still another catch, in that when the discharge re-ignites after each half-cycle of the mains, a somewhat higher voltage is needed to re-ignite the arc than its normal plateau voltage.  The longer the duration of the off period, the higher this voltage required for re-ignition.  In other words if the arc voltage is made too high, the duty cycle will become so low that the re-ignition voltage will become so high that it is impossible to keep the arc burning.  This practical limitation is one of the main factors that sets the upper range for an HID arc tube's voltage.

The above facts are true for mercury and metal halide lamps, but not for high pressure sodium, which has a third catch.  HPS lamps are characterised by the inconvenience of a rising arc voltage during life.  That is due to the sodium loss reactions over time, which Max explained can be limited e.g. by the steatite ceramic tube in your Auralight lamp.  But the volt rise can never be stopped completely.  If we would make HPS lamps with the same arc voltages of around 110-140V like mercury lamps, then they would work perfectly when new, but as they age a moment would arrive very quickly when the reignition voltage would exceed the voltage available from the ballast.  And then the lamp would fail by cycling.  To delay the onset of cycling until a reasonable time, HPS lamps are therefore designed to have a lower initial voltage than mercury lamps (typically around 85-115V).  Your SHP-100W lamp will start out with an arc voltage of 100V when new, but after it has burned for some 50,000 hours it will have risen to something much higher, more like 125V - and when its voltage exceeds what its ballast can deliver it will then go out and cycle.

By the way, if your lamp is made in Europe or Latin America except Mexico then it will be for EU-spec ballasts, and if made in USA or Canada it will be for American-type ballasts.  In the 100W rating these can be different.  Due to North America having a lower voltage mains around 120V, the lamp voltages for smaller HPS lamps are also halved.  So if you have a European-style lamp it will have 100V arc voltage, and if you have an American-style lamp it will have a 55V arc voltage.

It is also good to note that some latin american countries besides Mexico also use North American specification lamps and ballasts such as Colombia, Venezuela, and possibly all Latin American countries on the isthmus. In many cases, these countries sometimes have a mixture of North American and European market lamps and ballasts too.
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Re: Sylvania SHP 100w SBY 9 twin arc « Reply #13 on: July 13, 2021, 01:45:03 PM » Author: James
I was indeed talking only about Sylvania-brand HPS lamps, which as far as I know were only made in Mexico, Brazil and Colombia.
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