Author Topic: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada?  (Read 3355 times)
psycoustic
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How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « on: December 21, 2009, 09:23:51 PM » Author: psycoustic
Hi there,

I recently purchased a Dutch light fixture from the 1960's (a Philips Tb200).
I was surprised to see that it came with a ballast (specs:):

BHL 80L 11
HP(L) 80 W 220V ~ 50 Hz (Mercury vapor)
current: 0.80 A

and a bulb:

80 Watt HPL-N /542 (Mercury Vapor)

I really wanted to light this lamp up so this is what I came up with.
Since North America uses a 110 V rate I had to find a way to convert it to 220V 50 hz.
I bought this step up/down converter which has a capability to handle a max rate of 80 Watts. Sounds just about enough. I wired my MV ballast to the bulb and hooked it up to the step up/down converter and.... The bulb came on !!!! I waited for about a minute and something started to smell... It was my step up/down converter... Unfortunately my bulb didn't reach its full brightness so I had to shut everything off.. I opened my converter and the plastic (wrapped around the coil core) had started to melt.

I really want to try to find another way to light up my 80W foreign bulb! Is there anyone out there who could advise me ? I am looking for a fairly cheap solution.

btw I do have a 70 Watt HPS ballast taken from one of those security lights. Would I be able to use this one?

Thanks in advance  :)
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 12:58:58 AM » Author: icefoglights
The easiest way maybe to swap out the ballast with an H38 mercury vapor ballast and use a 100 watt mercury lamp in it.  I don't know for sure but that maybe a close enough match to run an 80W HPL-N bulb.  I'm sure someone on here would know more.
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 01:22:24 AM » Author: Medved
Transformers are rated for apparent power, so "Volt*Amps", not the real one. So if you want to find appropriate transformer, you would need 220V*0.8A = 176VA rated one.
And for the used ballast:
Series reactor ballasts (virtually the only magnetic concept used in 230V areas) are quite small, so the CWA might not fit there.
Using MH70W would overdrive the lamp, MV80W is rated for 0.8A, while MH70W for 1A.

Back to using original with transformer:
The coil is calculated to 220V and 50Hz. In your case you would run it on 60Hz, so the necessary supply voltage and power factor compensation capacitor would be different: 250V and 7.6uF. Even if the capacitor's value is nearly equal, you would need to change it due to voltage rating: The original would be 250VAC max,but you would need at least 300V rating.
Or generally you might supply the lantern from 244V while disconnecting the cap.
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 12:03:49 AM » Author: arcblue
I think the voltage conversion may be too much work and suffer too many power losses. If you can find one of the Regent mercury flood lights from a few years ago (they may show up at yard/rummage sales or Craigslist or Ebay), you can harvest the ballast from that. They were designed for an 80w MV lamp, and in fact I believe mine has a European HPL-N lamp in it.

A 50w metal halide ballast would also work (remove the ignitor), or an older 75w mercury ballast, though neither is "perfect," they're pretty close. The merc lamps are pretty tough and can tolerate some over or underpowering so an H38 100w ballast should be fine too. You could also try a four-lamp electronic instant-start fluorescent ballast and power the lamp with 3 of the outputs paralelled. Your 70w HPS ballast probably will NOT work - the voltage characteristics are very different, though you could run a 70w HPS lamp in your fixture :)
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 04:13:59 AM » Author: Silverliner
You can use a 75w mercury ballast.
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 10:16:48 AM » Author: Medved
The merc lamps are pretty tough and can tolerate some over or underpowering so an H38 100w ballast should be fine too.
But 25% would be too much, mainly when speaking about rare lamp. Furthermore EU lamps are designed for series inductive reactor ballast, what yield quite low current crest factor (~1.5), but US CWA have much higher (~1.8..2), what will sputter electrodes in faster rate.
I think the "MH50W" HX would be the best: 0.7A is not as low and HX has similar characteristics as serial choke.

You could also try a four-lamp electronic instant-start fluorescent ballast and power the lamp with 3 of the outputs paralelled.
I would not recommend this,as at first the high frequency ask for resonance effects in the burner (arc snakes), what might locally overheat it, as the arc touch the quartz.
As second, only ballast designed with all 4 tube circuits working in parallel on common inverter.
As third the OCV of these instant start ballats might be very high, what might strike an arc in the outer.
And last but not least, the momentary power dip, what cause lamp to extinguish, would yield to the ballast running long time (till it cool down to restrike) into open cuircuit, what might fry it's components.
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 06:03:18 PM » Author: Lampenfreak
Hello, why not using 2 40W fluorescent ballasts in parallel wiring? I think it is the best way to run. And you must know that using a 50Hz ballast with 60Hz is not good for it (same for 60Hz ballast running on 50Hz power supply).

Hope it was helpful.
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 05:16:28 PM » Author: Medved
Hello, why not using 2 40W fluorescent ballasts in parallel wiring?
I think it is the best way to run.
Question is, what type these ballasts would be, so what crest factor and operating frequency they have: The only suitable would be HX autotransformer (the inductive output impedance at mains frequency), but F40T12 NPF are more resistive, HPF are capacitive (so both too high crest factor), electronic use high frequency (resonance issues). Last and not least, fluorescent are much more tolerant to ballast inaccuracies (mainly in RS circuits), so fluorescent ballasts are not manufactured to as tight tolerances as HID.


And you must know that using a 50Hz ballast with 60Hz is not good for it (same for 60Hz ballast running on 50Hz power supply).
This would be correct, if you would use the ballast as a "black box", without knowing how exactly it work and how to design it.
But what i was actually doing was designing the lamp+ballast+power source to work together using available components. This count for knowing, how are power dissipation of an series coil type ballast divided into copper winding losses (~90%) and core losses (~10%) taking into account, the core losses would increase by 44% due to 20% higher frequency (assume eddy currents are dominant). But copper losses would lower by ~5% due to ~2.5% lower operating current (operating the ballast at 244V instead of calculated 250V), so overall power dissipation would be 0.95*0.9+1.44*0.1=1.001, so about 0.1% more then original - i feel this as no difference compare to all tolerances included...
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 04:41:47 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
I wonder how long should an 80w mercury lamp last on a 100w H38 ballast? I understand that 80w mercury lamps AND 100w mercury lamps both run at 0.8a, however, they only have slightly different arc voltages that should be within tolerance of each other. The 100w H38 mercury lamp runs at 130v while the 80w mercury lamp runs at 115v. Should this slight arc voltage difference of ONLY 15 VOLTS cause an 80w mercury lamp to burn out quickly on an H38 ballast?
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #9 on: October 29, 2020, 10:00:57 AM » Author: funkybulb
   Putting a 80 watt merc on 100 watt HX ballast is like putting 34 watt Fluorescent on preheat ballast.   So ballast would run
  So the H38 ballast have to work harder and that means more heat on the ballast.   U have to keep in mind mercury ballast have not been made since 2008.   And u want your mercury ballast to last long as possable.,

 There only 3 ways to light this


 50 watt MH that Medved Discribe above

  Single lamp 6 ft HO ballast it spot on 800 mA

  Or importing in 80 watt fluorescent ballast or 80 watt mercury

  The Regent flood light is really not a true 80 watt fixture.
 As it ran off H38 ballast.

 
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #10 on: October 29, 2020, 11:46:09 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
What about using 2 40w preheat ballasts in parallel?
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Re: How to get an 80W HPL-N ballast + bulb to work in Canada? « Reply #11 on: October 29, 2020, 12:01:14 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
   Putting a 80 watt merc on 100 watt HX ballast is like putting 34 watt Fluorescent on preheat ballast.   So ballast would run
  So the H38 ballast have to work harder and that means more heat on the ballast.   U have to keep in mind mercury ballast have not been made since 2008.   And u want your mercury ballast to last long as possable.,

 There only 3 ways to light this


 50 watt MH that Medved Discribe above

  Single lamp 6 ft HO ballast it spot on 800 mA

  Or importing in 80 watt fluorescent ballast or 80 watt mercury

  The Regent flood light is really not a true 80 watt fixture.
 As it ran off H38 ballast.

 

What about David Lay’s experiment involving F34T12 lamps on single lamp F40T12 preheat ballasts?

See here:

https://youtu.be/z7wLrABvzRY
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Say NO to ballast and bulb bans. MV, MH, HPS, and SOX forever!!!! Magnetic preheat fluorescent forever!!!!!

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