Maxim
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Stop replacing fixtures that can be retrofitted.
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https://inside.lighting/news/23-07/growing-list-state-wide-fluorescent-bans?utm_source=inside.lighting+Insider+VIP+List&utm_campaign=882b0b8bd1-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_6_9_2020_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d813e2c4c9-882b0b8bd1-576114074&mc_cid=882b0b8bd1&mc_eid=8dda3c807eWhy must states outright BAN fluorescent lighting?? No company or legislature really cares about the environment, clearly. Cause if they did, REPAIRABLE LEDs would be more prevalent. Instead, they die, and are tossed into the trash. I can only imagine the toxic substances used to create said China Fixtures; they’re made in China and they have zero environmental regulation! By throwing fluorescent lighting technologies out the window, that opens up more room for waste; chucking low quality LED products that can’t be serviced; rather than just a lamp being tossed, it’s the ENTIRE FIXTURE. I understand some LED uses; and I understand some individuals want to save money in the long run by buying LED; yes, less wattage is used. But why must the CHOICE of choosing your own lighting products disappear? Why must “outdated” lighting technologies be banned, and why must LED be forced upon us, whether we want it or not?  ??  This situation really baffles me. 
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2023, 05:11:42 PM by obsessedstreetlight24 »
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Collector of all kinds of lamps, gear, and fixtures.
My favorite lighting technologies at the moment are incandescent and mercury vapor, and my favorite Big 3 lighting brand of the late 20th century is GTE Sylvania.
About that Westinghouse Lifeguard disease, I think I've caught it. Thanks Eric! 
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Rommie
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| This is happening all over the world, and a lot of it is to do with lobbying by lighting manufacturers, not the US or any other government.
Please feel free to discuss the lighting aspect of this, but let's keep politics out of it. Members should be aware that we do not permit overt political discussion on this site; whatever you think of the US government, the UK government, the Chinese government or any other government or political group or party, this is not the place to discuss it.
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
Administrator, UK & European time zones. Any questions or problems, please feel free to get in touch 
"What greater gift than the love of a cat..?" - Charles Dickens
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Maxim
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Stop replacing fixtures that can be retrofitted.
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| Alright. I understand; thank you for clarifying. So, then why are lighting companies lobbying for LED??
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Collector of all kinds of lamps, gear, and fixtures.
My favorite lighting technologies at the moment are incandescent and mercury vapor, and my favorite Big 3 lighting brand of the late 20th century is GTE Sylvania.
About that Westinghouse Lifeguard disease, I think I've caught it. Thanks Eric!
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Maxim
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Stop replacing fixtures that can be retrofitted.
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| Post has been edited, Ria.
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Collector of all kinds of lamps, gear, and fixtures.
My favorite lighting technologies at the moment are incandescent and mercury vapor, and my favorite Big 3 lighting brand of the late 20th century is GTE Sylvania.
About that Westinghouse Lifeguard disease, I think I've caught it. Thanks Eric!
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Rommie
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Alright. I understand; thank you for clarifying. So, then why are lighting companies lobbying for LED??
To be honest, I don't know, it's one of life's great mysteries. Maybe there's more of a profit margin in it, I don't know. Personally I try and stay out of this sort of argument, I was just trying to clarify the site's position on political discussion. |
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
Administrator, UK & European time zones. Any questions or problems, please feel free to get in touch
"What greater gift than the love of a cat..?" - Charles Dickens
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HomeBrewLamps
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| "mercury added lamp"
I have a lot of words to say. None of which are professional.
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~Owen
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joseph_125
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Something really ironic I've noticed the current ban spree on all mercury containing lamps is that back in the day when consumers were hesitant about the mercury content of CFLs compared to incandescent lamps was that the EPA used to claim that the amount of mercury contained in a typical CFL or linear fluorescent lamp is less than what will be emitted from a coal fired plant used to power the incandescent lamp instead. Of course I think that has long since been wiped off the internet.  I wouldn't be surprised if the lighting manufacturers are lobbying for LED because that's where the profits are and LEDs are a mature enough product that the production costs are probably cheaper than fluorescent or HID but still "new" enough to consumers for them to get away with selling LED luminaires for more compared to a fluorescent or HID luminaire. Add to that a lot of LED luminaires were not meant to be repaired which means luminaires will have to be replaced on shorter intervals than traditional luminaires, adding to profits. For example: the typical lifespan for a HID cobrahead luminaire here was 30 years give or take, for LED I guess it'll vary widely depending on build quality and maturity of design but I'd already seen LED installations from 2010 get changed out with new LED luminaires at the 10 year mark. That's quite a bit more replacements compared to HID luminaires if they continue to replace the LED luminaires every 10 years. It's truly a shame that repairable LED products that are built to last are pretty rare. Unfortunately, with the introduction of new product line, it's easy for manufacturers to sneak in repair hostile features under the guise of the excuse that the new technology is inherently less repairable by consumers compared to making existing products less repairable. For example people would probably notice and push back if a HID luminaire manufacturer came out with a new luminaire model that blocks the use of 3rd party lamps and ballasts but it's easy slip it in during the switch to LED. I think the worst LED product on the market are those LED panels touted as replacements for fluorescent troffers, they're not designed to be repaired, they tend to have diffusers that degrade after a few years, and even when new there's no glare control at all. |
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Maxim
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Stop replacing fixtures that can be retrofitted.
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| “I think the worst LED product on the market are those LED panels touted as replacements for fluorescent troffers, they're not designed to be repaired, they tend to have diffusers that degrade after a few years, and even when new there's no glare control at all.”
MY. GOD. I. HATE. THOSE. ABOMINATIONS.
My local supermarket installed these on opening day in 2022; 3/4 or more have already been replaced. They blacken, deform, and dim like crazy.
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Collector of all kinds of lamps, gear, and fixtures.
My favorite lighting technologies at the moment are incandescent and mercury vapor, and my favorite Big 3 lighting brand of the late 20th century is GTE Sylvania.
About that Westinghouse Lifeguard disease, I think I've caught it. Thanks Eric!
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joseph_125
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Yeah, aside from them being junk, I really don't like how wasteful they are when you have to replace them that often. Here's an example of one with degraded diffuser. A proper LED troffer will typically at least have a replaceable driver unit and offer at least some glare control. |
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Rommie
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A friend of ours is a sparky and he put up this video the other day. Says it all, really  |
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
Administrator, UK & European time zones. Any questions or problems, please feel free to get in touch
"What greater gift than the love of a cat..?" - Charles Dickens
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Mandolin Girl
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One of the reasons might be the fact that they're made on production lines with no manual input, or if there is it's poorly paid manual workers with minimal skill levels.  There aren't any skilled workers any more who have learnt over many years how to make the lamps. |
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen) 
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There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.
James Thurber
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dor123
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“I think the worst LED product on the market are those LED panels touted as replacements for fluorescent troffers, they're not designed to be repaired, they tend to have diffusers that degrade after a few years, and even when new there's no glare control at all.” The diffusers of LED panels, are usually made from acrylic, which is a UV resistant material, but apparently not resistance to blue light. |
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
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Robotjulep
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HID lighting is the best!!!
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“I think the worst LED product on the market are those LED panels touted as replacements for fluorescent troffers, they're not designed to be repaired, they tend to have diffusers that degrade after a few years, and even when new there's no glare control at all.”
MY. GOD. I. HATE. THOSE. ABOMINATIONS.
My local supermarket installed these on opening day in 2022; 3/4 or more have already been replaced. They blacken, deform, and dim like crazy.
A school was replacing all their 4 lamp t8 troffers with Lithonia lighting LED panels. I was able to salvage many working t8 ballasts from the bin and also I got myself a troffer and converted it to t12. It really sucks that new lighting is unrepairable and designed to fail within a rated lifespan. This makes me think LED retrofits are still better than entire LED fixtures. |
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I collect:
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Electric motors (Preferably AC induction motors),
Computers,
and Stereo equipment.
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joseph_125
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| I've noticed some stores install what's basically ballastless fluorescent fixtures such as striplights and troffers wired to accept direct wire LED tubes and to be honest I prefer those compared to the panels as it segregates the parts of the fixture that are consumable into a lamp with a standard form factor that can be easily swapped out like traditional fluorescent lamps. The same applies to retrofits too, those can be relamped when the LEDs die.
@Rommie - Haven't watched the full video but unfortunately the manufacturers do like to cut corners with using marginally cheaper LED chips and capacitors as it saves them quite a bit over millions of units and plus it means they die sooner which means they get a consistent profit stream; especially with fixture designs that weren't meant to be repaired. Add to that conventional lighting is difficult to source if not outright illegal to install in the coming years, consumers can't even switch back. I suppose if market forces change and consumers start demanding more repairable designs and better build quality that eventually the manufacturers with those products might come out ahead as people get sick of the cheapo LEDs that break in half a year.
Repair hostile designs and practices aren't new, they've been standard in the smartphone market for years but hopefully with rules pushing back on that stuff, such as the one in the EU requiring user swappable phone batteries in the coming years. We'll see it bleed over into the lighting industry too to encourage longer lasting and more repairable designs.
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marcopete87
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| My opinion is:
- No mercury and related safety hazard.
- Less shipping issues (there isn't any glass to break).
- Very cheap electronic.
- Less manifacturing machinery (no glasswork to deal with, no gas furnaces, etc...).
- Simple and reliable production method (imported from electronic).
- (if designed properly) more efficient (which give a better look by customers, expecially after methane prices skyrocketed last year and so, electrical bill).
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