Author Topic: I suspect that electrodes fusing mechanism may cause a premature lamp failure  (Read 1816 times)
dor123
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I suspect that electrodes fusing mechanism may cause a premature lamp failure « on: July 27, 2010, 10:45:05 AM » Author: dor123
This may cause to all CFLs with integrated electronic ballasts and fixtures for 4 pin PL lamps, T5 circular lamps and linear flureoscent lamps which equipped with an electronic ballast that have this fusing mechanism.
Quite simply: if the ballast failed to ignite the lamp by chance (In which the next try will be successful [Common in preheat magnetic ballast with a glow starter, may also accur with a magnetic ballasts with integrated electronic starter and even in HID lamps]), it will immediately fuse the lamp electrodes, causing the lamp to fail prematurely.
What do you think about this theoretical case???
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Foxtronix
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Re: I suspect that electrodes fusing mechanism may cause a premature lamp failure « Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 01:38:07 PM » Author: Foxtronix
I'm not completely sure to understand what do you mean. Do you mean that too many tries to fire a lamp before EOL may lead to electrode destruction?

If so, chances are thin it could happen, unless the electrode filament is too thin (due to a manufacturing defect). As long as the electrode has emissive substance, the voltage applied to it cannot harm it. The electrode destruction usually happens at EOL, when no emissive substance is left. In order to maintain the discharge, and if possible, the ballast has to raise the voltage. Preheat ballasts don't have this capacity, so the discharge cannot be maintained. On instant start and some rapid start ballasts it is possible. Many electronic ballasts without EOL protection (including most CFL ballasts) can raise the voltage at EOL as well.

This heats up the electrode a lot more. Sometimes it compensates the lack of emissive substance, the hotter filament then produces thermionic emission by itself, according to the Edison effect, and the tube runs for a few more hours, but that higher voltage quickly worns the filament. When there's no filament left, the discharge attacks the support, which melts almost instantly until it reaches the glass stem. From that moment on, vacuum loss is close.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 01:17:27 PM by TiCoune66 » Logged

Medved
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Re: I suspect that electrodes fusing mechanism may cause a premature lamp failure « Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 04:00:30 PM » Author: Medved
If I understood well, you are afraid, then the longer preheating caused by not successful ignition attempt in the classic magnetic preheat is the cause of premature filament failure.

I don't think this is the case, as the filament fusing (designed as EOL protection mechanism for electronic ballasts) require very large overcurrent, what can not happen in correctly working (so not damaged in any way; starting current does not exceed 2x the operating one, what is not sufficient to fuse the filament). The high current (5..20x the nominal one) could build up only, when high-Q resonance take place. This happen only in those high frequency electronic ballasts during an ignition attempt.

In magnetic preheat circuits with the glowbottle starter the most frequent cause for unsuccessful ignition is the insufficient electrode temperature - the starter let the current flow too short. The main part of the turn-ON delay is the starter heating up to close for the first time (when it glow; during this time there flow very small current), while the actual preheat start, when the starter actually stop glowing (as the contact short it's discharge out).

The filament break only when the preheat take really long time, so after many unsuccessful ignition attempts, what mean there is something wrong with the tube, so filament interruption at this point is good to protect the rest of the system. But such mechanism is not much reliable - usually the starter fail first (if it does not contain the cut-out device) as permanently closed and the filament keep glowing even for months. Then it is the question, if something overheat in such state (good quality ballast should not).
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dor123
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Re: I suspect that electrodes fusing mechanism may cause a premature lamp failure « Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 05:07:50 AM » Author: dor123
I means that if the low cost electronic ballast failed to ignite the lamp by chance once (Even if the next try would be successful) it may immediately fuse the electrodes thinking this was cause happened because the lamp reached EOL. A single ignition failure by chance was accured in the past in the two T5s of 54W in the kitchen of my father home and their ballast don't relay on filament fusing as it simply refused to ignite the lamps again. After i turned off and back on the switch, the lamps ignited successfully.
If such a case of unsuccessfull single ignition would be accur in a lamp that connected to an electronic ballast that relay on filament fusing, it would immediately fuse the electrodes of the lamp causing premature failure.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

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Medved
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Re: I suspect that electrodes fusing mechanism may cause a premature lamp failure « Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 05:23:06 PM » Author: Medved
Magnetic preheat ballasts ignite lamp by only alone kicks, what contain only one steep voltage edge and disappear after very short time, so has to be repeated in case the ignition was not successful (e.g. if the lamp require multiple pulses or loger time for the ionisation to build).
HF electronic ballast use high voltage at high frequency for way longer time (10's of milisecond), what mean there are 100's of steep voltage changes during this time. So if this does not ignite the lamp, there is very high probability the lamp reached EOL.
After this time the ballast (now i mean those better, intelligent ones) check for the arc and if not present, the "ignition failure" fault shut it down. Usually this is implemented as overcurrent detection, what is enabled after the "ignition time-out" expires (so when the lamp should be already ignited). This protection is reset by or power OFF-ON cycle or lamp removal/reinsertion (it sense the presence of the lamp filament, when non-conductive keep ballast disabled and reset all fault flags)

On cheap selfoscillating inverter ballasts, where in the ignition mode (just after power ON on instant start and after the PTC heated up on the PTC-programmed start ones) the circuit oscillate at the resonance frequency of the lamp circuit, so the high voltage and high currents are present virtually infinitely, in the reality till something break, as this mode stress nearly all components (mostly by power dissipation, so it need some time to really reach killing conditions). In ballasts with the filament connected in series with the resonance capacitor, this large current flow trough filaments during whole ignition attempt time, what really boost it's temperature up, what mostly ignite the lamp even without working electrode emission coat, as the filament tungsten reach it's own emission temperature. If the emission coat does not recover, such high temperature is maintained and the filament break after while (usually few 10's of seconds). If the lamp does not ignite, the large current virtually evaporate the filament in few seconds.
In all cases this can not happen on good lamp: At first it take very long (compare to ionisation buildup time) and as second the ballast help itself by boosting the filament temperature.
On well designed system filaments fuse safely sooner, then ballast internal components reach dangerous temperatures, so when the lamp is replaced, it work again.

Some such ballasts are equipped with extra PTC in the lamp circuit serving as reversible fuse: If the lamp does not ignite or fail, so the current in the circuit build up to dangerous levels, this PTC reach the tripping temperature and virtually interrupt the circuit, so shut the ballast down. Then the PTC need few seconds of power OFF or removed lamp to cool down.

So the behavior you describe on your F54T5 might happen with the lamp "on the edge" and on ballast with not only filament fusing protection, so sometimes this protection trigger, sometimes not.
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