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All lights are created equal
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Left and right I hear SBMV lamps being called inefficient and ugly. Like yea, they are inefficient and like 100 years old, but they are still stinkin cool. It opens up opportunities for cool-looking fixtures without a bulky ballast. Why are they so hated?  |
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LightsAreBright27
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Cheap LED Assassin
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| SBMV is in between domestic and industrial lighting. As it can be used in any household socket, people think it's like a normal light bulb and forget the limitations of HID (warmup time, hot restrike). Also, the colour and lack of efficiency make it not fit for industrial lighting.
For example, my white SBMV is very picky. I have to run it at a 45° angle. If I keep it vertical or horizontal, it would run for only 10 seconds.
Also, the lifespan is kinda short. I have a few, that have a good arctube but won't work due to the filament being broken. My 160w BLB SBMV suffers from this. To make it working as a normal MV, I would have to break open the bulb.
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Holder of the rare and sacred  F10T12/BL lamps here!
Also known as LAB27 for short.
One of the only Indian members here!
245v 50Hz
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joseph_125
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| Yeah for you average domestic user things like the CCT, the CRI, the warmup and hot restrike would limit their popularity for domestic use.
The power consumption and heat generated also limits their use in domestic fixtures, you might be able to use the 100w SBMV but a lot of domestic incandescent fixtures were not rated thermally for 160w SBMV lamps.
Finally because of how SBMV lamps work, a lot of lower wattage lamps weren't that better in terms of efficiency compared to incandescent lamps. You gained in longer life compared to incandescent and a higher CCT, which might have been desired in commerical/industrial lighting.
I suppose their blended MV/incandescent colour when lit also limits their popularity with some enthusiasts, who might prefer the look of a "pure" MV lamp instead.
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Medved
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| Why "hate"? The fact people do not want to use them does not mean anyone hates it. Except really some special applications, the are vastly outperformed by other sources so there is practically no application where it would make sense.
Their efficacy just is low, their purchase price rather high (compare to incandescents), the "does not need ballast" sopped being an argument since 70 years ago for most installations (so normal MV offered way higher efficacy and reliability and lower lamp cost), the only argument was for a lot of warm countries that the high CCT was seen as a "high class" light, so there the operating higher costs were not that issue, but with CFLs they lost ground even there (CFLs just offered better light quality).
It was an interesting idea, but with rather limited use, even since their introduction. The technologies evolved, what was first seen as a burden became nonissue (the ballast), so the complexities (has both hotfilament, as well as the discharge) and compromises (impossibility to get optimum operating conditions for both in a common envelope) of the SBMV just were not fit for most uses, simpler basic incandescents, various HIDs, fluorescents just offered better deal in their basic form.
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No more selfballasted c***
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Laurens
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| Do people hate them?
I think they're neat. Very odd, not very efficient. They should last longer than ordinary incandescents, but i have little confidence in today's chinese production models and i'm not gonna burn up the two nice Philips ones i have.
Philips' MLR lamps with the phosphor actually give a really nice light color. If they weren't so bright (only available at 160w and higher) i would not hesitate to use those in a homely setting.
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dor123
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| 230V 160W SBNV lamp have the same efficiency as a 230W 200W incandescent lamp. 230V 100W SBMV lamp is dimmer than 100W incandescent lamp of all voltage ratings.
It was actually very popular here in Israel during the first decade of the 2000's.
I've 2 Osram HWL 160W and one Philips ML 160W, and they have great color.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
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RRK
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Generally, no hate for SMBV, but being better than incandescents, they are still horribly inefficient compared to any modern light source being discharge or solid state. But cheap and trivial to use, yes no doubts. I have seen SBMV were popular as a temporary lighting at construction sites a few years ago. Better than incandescents and less glarey, but still dirt cheap so not to cry if one get broken or cracked when welding debris hit it. Even have one 250W 'rescued' with molten metal scars on it  "230V 160W SBMV lamp have the same efficiency as a 230W 200W incandescent lamp." - This is just not true. Philips quote 19lm/W for their last gen ML160 SBMV lamps. Incadescents will hit ~15lm/W at their best, really probably more close to 12lm/W actually. @dor123 can you show any datasheet to prove? (from a reputable vendor like Osram or Philips please) Important caveat: We are talking 230V general lighting incandescents. It is trivial to make an overdriven 3400K photolamp with high efficiency BUT it will burn off after just a few *tens* of hours. Also what @dor123 said is true in 120V countries like USA and even more in 100V Japan, yes. |
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« Last Edit: April 16, 2025, 02:49:29 AM by RRK »
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dor123
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@RRK: I've seen that my Philips ML 160W and my Osram HWL 160W have both the same light output as my 200W rare Or-Israel single coiled incandescent lamp.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
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RRK
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Roman
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| Also, Moscow metro still seems to use some SBMV (and lots of generic HPM too) lamps. Gradually getting removed, but still can be spotted from time to time.
Sure for a metro lamp's efficiency is no serious issue when a single train can consume power in megawatt range!
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RRK
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@RRK: I've seen that my Philips ML 160W and my Osram HWL 160W have both the same light output as my 200W rare Or-Israel single coiled incandescent lamp.
Light measurements OR at least some datasheets quotes, please! |
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dor123
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| I can only eyeball things.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
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RRK
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Roman
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So, well, when was the last time your eyeballs were verified and calibrated in lumens against a government approved standard reference?  |
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dor123
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
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Alex
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feel free to ask questions
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Osram Classic A Cl 200W : 3040lm 1Osram Centra 200W Cl : 2500lm 2Osram HWL 160W : 3100lm 3Being your comparison lamp is single coil it is much closer to the Centra lamp. However disregarding that, the statement the 200W is as bright as 160W HWL lamp is not correct. If it is compared with a single coil lamp the error is just bigger then when compared to a double coil lamp Apart from that, eating that data was a five minute internet research, something that can be demanded from everybody before such often wrong statements are made with questionable sources... hated? Who ever said they hated these lamps? They just fustily proved a dead end at least for general lighting, making the obsolete in the 60s to 70s. they just combined the disadvantages of MV and GLS with less effiency then both, at least at low wattages. 1) Osram general lighting service lamps Page 1.04 https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/42847485/indoor-and-outdoor-lighting-2006-2007-osram [04.2025] 2) Osram PDF datasheet from 2013 https://www.leuchtstark.de/out/media/OSRAM_PDF/os-0012971.pdf [04.2025] 3) Osram PDF datasheet from 2023 https://blob-cdn.lampa.lv/f4/f440ecd21a12a9e754a6ba2a52b8fdb5dd9d32f3.pdf [04.2025] |
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Glück auf ⚒️
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AngryHorse
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Rich, Coaster junkie!
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| Self ballasted mercury lamps, or MBTF as we know them in the UK were a brilliant invention 😎, ok not so efficient now, but they were a vast improvement back in the day when factories were full of high powered tungsten lamps!
I still use the 500s today when I’m decorating 😁, just one sat in the middle of the room when you’re painting walls is perfect for light and heat! 🤪
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