I've just noticed that on BT25's comments, it displays "guest" next to his username, meaning that the account has been deleted. This is a real shame since he had great opinions, uploads and information. It's sad to see more members leaving.

I also couldn't find his post about dumping LG, so this is why this is its own topic.

Some people here haven't realised that yet.
Yes, Eric has left. I can understand him well. Such a proliferating offtopic area is a decision aid to reduce the activities here or even to leave the site. The core topic of this site is lighting and light.

Now some people will certainly moan that Eric has gone. But these people will not think that they themselves have contributed to this through their activities in the offtopic area or with pointless topics. For me, the departure of Eric is a great loss here.

Ah right, it's a shame.

Okay, I have requested that this topic was re opened. I have spoken with an admin and to be honest I feel personally it is a good idea to discuss members leaving. Abandoning their accounts etc. but please keep it amicable. I feel this is an important topic for the site and we can get to the root of the issues.

Alternatively if you feel more comfortable send a PM to admins or me.

I’ve been in talks with an admin and we have both gone through the negative topics and he has cleaned up the first few pages of the off topic section. 

Please if anyone sees anything negative or that you feel is not good for the site that we’ve missed or is posted  anywhere in the bottom section of forum topics especially,  please let admins / myself know and I’ll pass it on. Linking the exact topic(s) to us will help us get to them  direct

Alternatively I am here in PM or on Facebook if any of you need someone to talk to if you are feeling like you don’t fit in here or are upset on or with LG etc. Please speak up privately if you have issues.  Please don’t post it in the forum

Make sure you keep it on topic, or I may have to close it again!

Thanks @Danny, I too believe that it's important to discuss members leaving. I want to minimise the number of members who will leave the site, since I really enjoy using this site and I know many other members do too.

So are we removing rule 8?

8. Do not discuss members who have been possibly suspended or banned – this information is confidential.

Well one of the few things I very seriously dislike here is muffling of the discussion about the members who have left. If users are leaving en-masse, definitely something rotten is happening and it is in need to be corrected asap, instead of sticking head in the sand...

Still much regret Max leaving, with all of his excellent reference material. As L-G is not properly backed up by Internet Archive, all this is gone irreversibly, very sad.

All of his excellent work is sure replaced now with incessant pictures from 'storage of Carmel hospital', you know) and also by neverending stream of old cobraheads, shot against the light with wide angle mobile phone lenses at 100m distance) so each luminaire itself is a murky blob of ten pixels wide...  And of course we have plenty of pictures with spent fluorescents in a trash can right now

Okay, so i will try to put down as politely as I can, however there will be controverse statements.

First of all i think this here was long overdue that we get a a place to discuss that stuff publicly. This prevents the spread of false rumours when these discussions happens behind in the dark.
From my view we have a massive brain drain here there due to public or quite quitting.

Eric was a member who, at least from my understanding was a person i would call a serious collector. Max, James, Olav, Lightbulbfun, myself and surely more I would consider the same. What do I mean by serious collector? Well all the mentioned collect lamps not randomly but with a system. We don't collect random lamps floating around. We collect lamps for certain aspects we find interesting. To find those aspects that makes  lamps interesting an, in-depth knowledge and research of these lamps is necessary. That takes a lot of effort, patience and also money. However we are capable to point out to every lamp we own what is special about it, and were it stands in the great sheem of things. This allows us to judge the historical and significant example of a lamp. For us this i not a side quest but dedication. Our research is what allows us to estimate date of manufactures on lamps, to estimate the age of lamps or their electrical characteristics.
We all come from different backgrounds, everyday jobs or engineers. This gives us interdisciplinary knowledge.

There was a time half a decade ago, maybe a bit longer, were this and other forum were dominated by people like us. We generally were higher age. And the interactions were much more mature. In my opinion this was first of all due the higher age ( I can very well see that, when i se very old pictures I uploaded, were i would never dream of writing something similar today) but also mutual respect as we generally appreciate the effort of the other partly due self experience of the difficulties that may be encountered. Also these people were still custom to other types of communication like essays or letters.

Then there is he other group i would call lighting enthusiasts. They collect what they find and plainly enjoy lighting. They don't have "organised collection". This group can (expect very few) be divided in two further group. Generation analog and generation digital. For generation analog the same is valid like for the serious collectors.

generation digital, in my opinion never learned to communicate correctly in the first place, which makes things more difficult.
However there a more serious problems. The constant use of google and the internet has made them custom to short and simple answers. Generally these don't fit the complexity of the problem. Let me elaborate with two examples:
1) Discharge lamp. The lamp seems simple , two electrodes a gas and an arc. It is not possible o find a closed solution to calculate the exact lamp properties. All that can be done is estimates.
2) Chokes as ballast. Simple, a coil around an iron core. Again not possible to find an closed solution how to calculate its characteristics, only for certain modes of operation.
Answering questions that have to do with these rather important part of or hobby can often not be done in a sentence.

The learning kurve for electric lamps is rather steep, and even or very experienced folks there still is very much estimating. If you then publish a post for which you did hours of research and it then get commented with a falsehood and the author of said falsehood even decide to insist on it even if proved otherwise, then this is in my opinion simply insulting. Same goes for some vagely accurate  but off topic reaction. For example if the evolution of LPS lamps is discussed and then you get a statement " I find it strange that some people say SOX are HID even the i think it´s not" it is indifferent to "I don't care what you think, your dumb. i read on Facebook now (...) off."

So honestly when i already know that 50% percent of the attention my post others is useless as best  or a plain insult to my work, I will not publish my work here anymore. I have almost no diasatwentage due to this. I have contact data to all the people i have this interesting conversations with, we can discuss these things privately. The chance of an useful input coming from somewhere else can be considered marginal.

Learning resistance, narcism, need for attention. these are all character flaws we all have in some way shape or form. However everybody should be able to make an effort to repress those flaws and not celebrate them. This also takes place when corrected, it is acceptable to be wrong. Poltics and Religious discussion are banned. So don't treat LPS or any other light sources as a religion. Sure i can stump from a bridge because im strongly of the opinion that i can fly. Indeed i can until touch the ground and the poor sanitiser then have to scrape my rests of the pavement.

If people are incapable of that, the administration should step in.

Mentel health, Some members suffer from real or imaginary mental disorders. Wile i understand that these may handicap yo, winding behind them, like some do is unacceptable. En effort can be expected from everyone. If they prove unwilling or incapable then the moderation needs to step in. Me nor most here are psychiatrists and not qualified for handling mentally disabled people.

incompetence. Non of us is master of all fields. We all started small and built up our knowledge. However in the last months I have read things that were so bluntly untrue that i could only comment sarcastically. One instance of such a comment was this one: im going to talk to my cactuses. I think that convesation will be more fruitful...  This was the reaction of a an unbeliveble post about AC power and lamp efficiencies. I was actually contacted by a few people who very much enjoyed that answer.
These things need to be deleted in my opinion and the author warned.  A minimal amount of research can be expected from everyone. This site cannot be the ether were everybody blasts their random thoughts in.

The off topic forum... Well currently the off topic forum looks like we are some miserable mental disease plagued human beings on a sit thats slowly drifting apart. In my opinion that needs to go or at least not be public to everyone. I, like every other human have fears, problems with frindships getting lost, break ups, close people dying. However I don't have the need to tell everybody here because thats personal. And while the loss of a parent, brother, friend or a particularly beloved vermin that had the honour of living in somebody's house may be difficult for said person,  I honestly don't care. Every second two people pass away. thats part of human life, but in almost all cases that has ne point of inpact in my life. XY dog got hit by a car and died... should have had a better look after it... I don't care honestly.
Think what you post, is that really necessary and especially is it adequate? Or is it just to be pitied?


possible Solutions

What can I do? We have that blocking feature for members, and yes I use it. And In my opinion those who are blocked from commenting should accept their fait. If I don't want to know something about some strange chicken that only exist in japan or some strange pseudo observation that well may be something completely different, thats my decision. Then writing PM´s that I should change that, that I don't understand a person mental health bla blue balbla, i don't care. If you´r incapable of partciping in a conversation with me at an intellectual level i demand then thats your problem.
However If you have build up you skills or stopped a certain annoying behaviour then you will be endblocked.

The administration: We have rules. And it seems that these rules seem to be enforced at different importance. Rule 8 discussion of prior members was enforced rigurosly. Other like the picture quality, minimum age and double pictures not so much, or if it was there must have been some really gruesome pictures beeng uploaded.

The age limit is another thing that is extremely important in my opinion. A child's brains is not finally developed and therefor it is incapable of comprehending the things that were discussed here for a long time and are no being displaced from here.

Moderation. We had a change in moderation, and I strongly stand behind that change and my past advocacy first for the removal of said admin  and my advocation for a permanent ban after the revelations danny made at that time.

I have had a main problem with the moderation style. It was the double standard. dor123 was held against an extremely high standard that only a handful of people could achieve. However it was looked the other way with favoured member and what i very much disliked that the spouse had an favoured rank.

Don't get me wrong it is a deeply right thing to treat your spouse favourably compared to others, however you should not be allowed in the position were you have to make an impartial decision between your spouse an others. 

I would describe that moderation style as Tyranny but not for the strict standard but for the double standard.

After the Parting it seem like all standards were dropped. Max was the first casualty and after a short resurgence of quality and input a decline of quality started which's gradient is becoming higher and higher. We´re back in  the downwards spiral but for another reason. The offenders are few and hopefully they can be moved to taking this place a bit more serious and find the strength to resist their attention grivingness. If the show they are incapable of that it is time for the moderation to step in. 

The age limit is another thing that is extremely important in my opinion. A child's brains is not finally developed and therefor it is incapable of comprehending the things that were discussed here for a long time and are no being displaced from here.

I've commented on stuff like this before, but that's truly the single most stupid, backwards thing you can do. Gatekeeping is NEVER a good thing. Especially not with a web site that's losing members faster than it gains them.
Do you want people to learn or not? Because this clearly shows that you do not want people to even get a chance at learning things.

Kids in puberty are knowledge magnets, even more so the autistic folks who have lighting as their special interest. Perhaps they will not be able to do the right calculations, but they will be able to learn how to hook up ignitors and ballasts according to a circuit diagram just fine.

I stem from the antique radio and ham radio communities, where there is a similar overrepresenation of what appears to be autistic people (you never know for sure until people say they are, but let's be honest) with a special interest in tech stuff. Yes, young people ask things out of ignorance and don't always understand the reactions to their questions. But that's fine. It's planting a seed, you need to water it to grow.

It takes a village to raise a child. Some of the 'dumb kids' on the forums are now far outpacing the old farts in gaining new knowledge. They are the ones who in 25 years time will be keeping the flame burning when all the olds have died out or moved to an elderly home.
The ham radio community is also suffering from people aging out and from new folks not having the space for the rigs the olds always had, with their single family homes  with a backyard and roof access for all the antennas you could get away with. But at least they are trying to actively teach the kids. Same with the radio guys. If a 14 year old kid asks for test equipment and parts on the ham or antique radio forums, you bet there will be a deluge of useful stuff practically wheelbarrowed their way to give the kid a good start.

For the hoarders among us, consider donating some useful parts to the kids who are trying to find gear for some lamps that were made before the kid even was alive. Until you have an 'entry' it really is not easy to find the stuff you need. Especially not if the only sources you can find are wholesale/professional shops where a single ballast costs you half a year of allowance or a month of youth minimum wage or whatever, essentially pricing you out of the hobby.

NEVER EVER tell young people they are too dumb to even be allowed to ask questions on a forum, or IRL for that matter. You should not even think about it. I am a professional in this area. I work at a school with the tech stuff. I explain ohm's law year after year, i explain how not to blow up light bulbs with a variable power supply year after year. I teach kids about not reversing polarity of some big fat electrolytic caps (and - somewhat to my surprise - i have been succeeding in preventing kids blowing up a 4700µF 35v cap!) If you laugh at them, or tell them they're too stupid to learn, why the hell would they even bother trying to learn and pay attention?

Don't get me wrong - i understand the frustration. After all, i've seen kids do the exact thing you tell them not to do, every year again. But such is life. And if you don't teach them while they're young, it's unlikely they'll ever bother to continue learning tech stuff at all, and there's no chance of the predominantly discharge lighting hobby ever surviving as a community.

One thing that might help to reduce the annoyance of dealing with "stupid" questions is to write a FAQ or wiki, a proper knowledge base. The dutch old radio forum has a compilation of useful questions and responses from forums users, for dealing with the most common questions like 'is this capacitor reliable' or 'how do i re-finish this type of wood/bakelite cabinet'. It gives people new to the hobby an accessible and above all findable knowledge base for practical questions. The internet of today is not the internet that we grew up with, where everything could be found with a few keywords in google. Today the internet has been broken up in little, hard to search/index islands making it so much harder to find something until you get a couple years of experience searching for stuff.

Finally, be aware that if you talk about Facebook, you're talking about older people already. I never see any kid using facebook anymore at work. Facebook tech groups are the domain of Gen X and boomers. And yes, facebook absolutely sucks. What a horrible, negative cesspit of algorhythms designed to keep you angry and complaining.

To re of Alex's comments: Hear, Hear!

Maybe I should interject here...

Yes, I'm back, but I'm going to keep it low key for now. I was politely asked to return, and was rather reluctant at first to do so, considering how things have been here...
The reason I stepped away was due to the low quality direction the site is heading. From redundant photos to just moronic post/behavior from rookie/veteran members, and that the members I would interact the most with either no longer contribute, or have left themselves. (If all the knowledgeable members leave, then the inmates win.) Does LG really need 500 angle shots of the same 5 luminaires? Quality over quantity, that's the way it should be done...and make a collage, it's rather easy. 
As to those who think it's about the off-topics...it's not. honestly, I don't care what people discuss...it's the off topic section. If one wants to talk about dying their dogs fur safety orange, have at it, but don't expect others to read or comment.

Just don't take it personally.  I would skim over and find something that I like and place a comment there

 BT25 is right on this . We don't need 10 Zillion photos of the same light ! I've had several mambers ask me to post photos of HID streelights around me and I tell every one of them "WHY , What do we need MORE photos of a light of which there's already 10 zillion photos of "  If it's uncommon , fine .  Currently on LG , there's 653-GE M250R2's , 381-Cooper OVX's , 302-Cooper OVZ's , 215-AEL115's  . We don't need more !!!  AGAIN , if YOU personally own it or there's something special about it , FINE , if not , we don't need it taking up memory .

 As for asking questions , DO SOME RESEARCH 1ST ! if you can't find an answer that makes sense to you , feel free to ask !  Another related item , when asking a question about a photo , READ THE ENTIRE DESCRIPTION 1ST !!   The number of times I've seen a question asked on someone else's photo or one of mine that's clearly in either the main description or the light information is astounding !    How hard is it to read both the description & light info AND previous comments BEFORE asking something ?

 The saying "There are no dumb questions" When the answer is clear as day in the decription , info or previous replies , well you do the math !  EXAMPLE : Light info says , "produces more light than a new 400w MH" . QUESTION ASKED "Is it very bright ?"  SERIOUSLY

 Theft : "Look what I saved/rescued from this abandoned building/complex/house/dumpster , whatever . SOMEONE OWNS IT ! If you weren't specifically told you can have it , YOU STOLE IT ! If you get caught , you could get arrested !    Is it worth it ?  Not too long ago , I read about someone who got arrested for stealing brass door hardware from a building which was scheduled for demo . His defense was "everything was going to be bulldozed and just end up in the landfill anways " What he didn't know was that the demo contractor had already made a deal with a local archetectural salvage company to BUY all of the hardware !  Plus , is all of the stuff in the dumpster being sold to a recycling company ? We're currently dealing with that one at work . Scrappers are stealing the aluminum from our scrap metal dumpster. When they get caught , we WILL be pressing charges against them ! We rent the dumpster monthly , part of the rent cost is deducted from the value of the scrap , the more they steal , the longer it takes to fill the dumpster , the less profit , if any , we make ! In the end , just ASK  ! You might be surprised at the answer !

So are we removing rule 8?

8. Do not discuss members who have been possibly suspended or banned – this information is confidential.

There's a difference between talking about someone who got banned/suspended, and someone who resigned their membership.