Author Topic: DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass?  (Read 1269 times)
Multisubject
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DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass? « on: May 06, 2025, 09:19:05 PM » Author: Multisubject
Now, I have said some pretty strange things here, but this has to be by far the furthest stretch.

So low pressure sodium discharge tubes are made with soda-lime glass coated with "borate glass" on the inside. I don't know what exactly they mean by "borate glass" but I know that borax is very glassy and is "sodium tetraborate decahydrate". I think the important thing here is to NOT have silicates, and this requirement seems to be met by borax. The melting point of borax is significantly less than soda-lime glass, and so you should be able to coat the inside of a soda-lime glass tube with molten borax. Now that is all fine and dandy, but I can't seem to get a consistent answer about the thermal expansion coefficient of borax.

I have the following questions:

1) Thermal expansion coefficient:
Anybody know what it is? I can't find a consistent answer.

2) Sodium resistance:
If you were able to miraculously coat the inside of a discharge tube with borax, would it be sodium resistant?

No matter the answer, I am pretty sure I will never end up trying this, but as always it would be cool to know.
Thanks!
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RRK
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Re: DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass? « Reply #1 on: May 07, 2025, 06:16:28 AM » Author: RRK
If you would like to play with boron compounds, you better make some boron oxide phosphors. Super easy to bake and really cool looking substances!
 
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Multisubject
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Re: DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass? « Reply #2 on: May 07, 2025, 10:57:17 AM » Author: Multisubject
What exactly do you mean by that? How do they behave?
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RRK
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Re: DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass? « Reply #3 on: May 07, 2025, 11:30:24 AM » Author: RRK
To make a phosphor you generally need a matrix and an activator. For the matrix here you need some boron oxide mass. As activator. unusually you add some organic pigment molecules. Fluorescein works very well.

To create boron oxide matrix you just melt a bit of boric acid. Use aluminium foil or thin aluminium plate as a base, heat the acid in the flame slowly. It will bubble decomposing to boron oxide and water, then will stop bubbling leaving a glassy mass. You need just add a few grains of fluorescein or a drop of fluorescein solution activator to the acid before melting. Do not overheat, avoiding fulorescein to char and turn brown.

When cooled, you will end up with greenish glassy mass. It is a phosphor but with some unusual properties, some kind of scientific curiosity. When charged with a bright light, it afterglow for a few seconds with a green light. What is unusual compared to regular persistent phosphors like zinc sulphide or strontium aluminate, it does not saturate at all, when charged with a bright xenon flash for example, it will afterglow *very* bright. Some say it does not phosphoresce as usual inorganic persistent phosphors, but what you see is in fact a fluorescence delayed by a very unusual amount of time!

Some other compounds work as acitivators too. If I remember right, an old drug of antipyrene gives blue glow. Also never tried, but probably fluorescein relatives rodamine and eosine may give orange and pink glow? Or will they decompose?

Both boric acid and fulorecsein are non-toxic within a reason and are easy to get, boric acid is even available at pharmacies where I live)
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Multisubject
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Re: DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass? « Reply #4 on: May 07, 2025, 11:53:49 AM » Author: Multisubject
Interesting, how about the boron oxide you mentioned? It is also a glassy solid that has a melting point lower than that of glass. Could it alone work as a sodium resistant coating? Does it adhere to glass?
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RRK
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Re: DIY two-ply sodium resistant glass? « Reply #5 on: May 07, 2025, 04:46:06 PM » Author: RRK
Using patent search is one good thing to dig up info related to lamp technology. For example, this one and of course other related patents are a good starting point!

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2030389

 
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