Re: OMFG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 09:00:43 PM » Author: Patrick
Please watch the language.  I believe they are referring to COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 245/2009. Under First stage requirements, you'll see a set of minimum efficiency standards for T5 and T8 lamps.  Then under Second stage requirements, it says Quote The requirements applicable to double capped fluorescent lamps 26 mm in diameter (T8) during the first stage shall apply to all double capped fluorescent lamps of other diameters than those covered in the first stage. These lamps must conform to the minimum efficacy of the T8 lamp which is their nearest equivalent with regards to wattage. If the nominal wattage is higher than the highest wattage in the table, it shall conform to the efficacy of that highest wattage. So basically all general purpose linear fluorescent lamps, including T12 and T10, will need to meet the same standards as their T8 equivalents.
		Logged

Patrick C., Administrator
Lighting-Gallery.net

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 07:09:23 PM » Author: Kev
The EU Need to burn in hell. Why should they be able to tell me what i install and what i don't. It should be a decision that i make with my customers site depending. If they want to go for the latest T5 Technology (not re comended) than that should be their choice which i will try and talk them out of but up to them. If they want to continue using their T12 Fittings that have done up to 40 years hard work and still have another 40 in them than that should also be their choice. A lot of places i look after simply do not have the money to replace PERFECTLY good 8 foot fittings. Some places it would cost 10s of thousands of pounds. Retarded EU!! James what is the state of play with the 8 foots as the only replacement for 8 foot T12 they make is those Pathetic china made adapters that convert them to 2x28W T5 utter junk. 8 Foot 840 is a VERY efficient tube with efficiency up to 93 Lm/W and reliable!
		Logged

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 03:22:36 AM » Author: dor123
T5s are LESS efficient than triphosphors T8s and are MUCH MORE sensitive to low temperatures than T8s and T12s. This is because the optimal performance of T5s is 35degC (95degF). paintballer22: The lifespan of mains voltage operated LED lamps, is limited by the lifespan of their integrated driver. Typical life of LED lamps with an integrated electronic drivers is 15,000 hours max, and this varies according to the driver quality. The main EOL mechanism of mains voltage operated LED lamps is "Ballast electronics" (Integrated driver failure). Edit: I can see myself how my Hyundai 21W HE T5 in my room, is so sensitive to low temperature, as in that winter, when my room is cold and my air conditioner don't heats the room, i can clearly see how dimmer the lamp start, when i turns it on, compared to the summer (I removed the cover from the fixture, as it is white and hides the lamp).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 06:21:24 AM by dor123 »		Logged

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 02:01:52 PM » Author: SOX55W
T5 can be much better in the cold if enclosed by a diffuser or a sleeve for insulation.  T5's aren't the only ones affected by the cold.  I've noticed T12 slimlines don't do well in the cold, esp the lower watt energy savers.  T5 HE are technically more efficient at 28W for the same light output as a typical 32W T8 according to the specs I've seen.  Not too exciting, but I really like the T5 HO for how much light they give off for their size.  Especially good for mounting space restricted applications and even more so for effective and efficient high bay HID alternatives.  There is the reflector design challenges, but the light is more dispersed for less harshness and shadows.  I think each technology has their own important advantages and disadvantages.
		Logged

Bring SOX lamps back!!!

FYI, LED's are NOT the most efficient lighting technology available! Don't know how people keep coming to that conclusion!

My other interests: sports cars, refrigeration, microcontroller projects, computer hardware, and any sort of custom fabrication.

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #8 on: November 16, 2011, 02:14:27 PM » Author: dor123
SOX55W: Today, i much hates the T5 HO, as in most commercial places that uses it, it causes overlighting, primerly because most uses 49W and 54W, which are equivalent to 36W T8 or, in your country F32T8 and F40T12. Carmel hospital uses T5 HE of 28W, but despite that these aren't HO lamps, they still causes overlighting of the the storages corridor.
		Logged

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #10 on: November 16, 2011, 04:20:36 PM » Author: SOX55W
Yes, overlighting is a problem with the lighting engineer, not the technology.  Kind of like how the rather small back parking lot at work is lit with 3 400W MH wall packs when 3 35W SOX lamps would probably do just fine...and the energy savings would cover the cost of the retrofit in less than 2 years even buying the proper ballast, which would probably last as long as the building.  Who cares what color the trash in the dumpster is! Personally, I like lots of light, since growing up we always had nasty 60W soft white incandescents behind lamp shades or white bowls/diffusers.  Lots of higher color temp light makes it feel more alive, esp places like stores. SOX lamps are all about seeing detail for driving/walking, and doing so for the least amount of energy. Contrast is unmatched...i can read fine print from what feels like twice the usual distance compared to other lights, even under more normal lighting levels (ie not a 90W SOX on the desk in a single dorm room!  )
		Logged

Bring SOX lamps back!!!

FYI, LED's are NOT the most efficient lighting technology available! Don't know how people keep coming to that conclusion!

My other interests: sports cars, refrigeration, microcontroller projects, computer hardware, and any sort of custom fabrication.

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #11 on: November 16, 2011, 04:58:31 PM » Author: Medved
With this is related the lumen maintenance of the chosen light source. If you allow your light source to drop down to 30% of the initial value, you need more then twice the nominal lumen output lamp (so almost twice the lamp power) compare to another setup, where you replace the lamp when it reaches the 70% of initial output. While the first setup is factor of 3 overilluminated with new lamp, the second one only by 30%. This is not hypothetic, this is the reason, why MV's should be replaced after the 4 years (= about the rated 24000hour life in 10hour/night schedule) and use half wattage installation, instead of keeping the lamp there for 10 years (with "It lights, so why to change it" or "MV last forever, see?" attitude). This false economy is the main reason, why MV's are so inefficient in the real life, what give great "ammunition" to proponents of the MV bans...
		Logged

No more selfballasted c***

	Re: OMG THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING SERIOUSLY!! « Reply #12 on: November 16, 2011, 05:13:44 PM » Author: SOX55W
thats also a big problem with old probe start MH as well.  Two different ice rinks I work at both have the same problem...the lamps get significantly dimmer which makes the whole arena look under lit.  Nobody understands rated life and lumen maintenance concepts.
		Logged

Bring SOX lamps back!!!

FYI, LED's are NOT the most efficient lighting technology available! Don't know how people keep coming to that conclusion!

My other interests: sports cars, refrigeration, microcontroller projects, computer hardware, and any sort of custom fabrication.