Author Topic: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp  (Read 6680 times)
yuandrew
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Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « on: August 21, 2012, 10:38:37 PM » Author: yuandrew
In a dream I had years ago, there was a vapor-tight type fixture by the back door of a Taco Bell with what appeared to be a spiral CFL except when turned on, it glowed a dim reddish-pink then warmed up into the familiar yellow-orange of a low pressure sodium lamp.

Well, a few days ago, I came across this while searching Google for some solar lighting products
http://shinypv.en.alibaba.com/product/500736774-212935356/90W_Nono_low_pressure_sodium_lights.html

This is a 90 watt low pressure sodium lamp with the discharge tube spiraled so it would fit into what appears to be a 35 watt sized outer envelope. Its marketed by China based Shandong Blessed Huihuang PV Energy Co, LTD who makes photovoltaic modules and solar powered lighting products.

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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 12:20:26 AM » Author: dor123
Never seen a helical LPS lamps.
They are "CSL" (Compact Sodium Lamp) lamps.
I think however, that because a helical shape traps more heat that a plain U shape, this lamp should run up more quickly.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 02:09:24 AM by dor123 » Logged

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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 04:19:54 PM » Author: Medved
Well, for sure one drawback of helical fluorescents is not present here: The uneven phosphor deposition and related problems - as LPS have no phosphor...
And the another drawback become an advantage: Compact shape mean high heat buildup (LPS design generally fight with the amount of energy necessary to keep the arctube hot enough).
But one remain and it is even more impactinng: The "shining into itself". Unlike fluorescents, where the tube absorb (even when significant, but still) fraction of the light, what the tube is shinning into itself, here all the emited light, what hit another tube part, is lost - the hot sodium absorb majority of the light at the sodium characteristic wavelength, so of the light it is supposed to generate. Fluorescent's atmosphere is similarly absorbent, but for the Hg UV lines. The wavelengths generated by the phosphor are not affected anymore by the Hg vapors, while the white powder of the other phosphor layers only diffuse the light, absorbing only little.
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 09:03:13 AM » Author: AngryHorse
Thats increadable Shocked, a spiral SOX!!, lets just hope if China wants to build them they try and make a good job of them.
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 03:41:17 PM » Author: James
Very intriguing!  In the 80s Philips also made prototypes of compact SOX lamps, which had the U-shaped discharge tube double-folded (as in an SL compact fluorescent lamp), or made into a spiral configuration just like this.  Both were unsuccessful due to the considerable amount of self-absorption which lowered the lamp efficacy so significantly that the one advantage LPS has, that of its high efficacy, was eliminated.

For a solar company, where I imagine efficacy is of utmost importance, I am sure the Chinese will also realise this soon and revert to the conventional U-tube design!
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 03:27:43 AM » Author: dor123
James: The light absorption of the helical CFL (By the fact that the light from one side of the spiral, is blocked by the phosphors of the other side of it), is also very high, leading to an efficiency similar to a mercury lamp (~45 lm/w average), while a TC-S non integrated CFL lamp (Which have a plain U shaped single tube), can reach 65 lm/w average for a 9W rating and a ~70 lm/w average for the daylight halophosphors 36W T8 lamps.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #6 on: September 01, 2012, 09:28:07 PM » Author: BG101
I can clearly see the light from the obscured parts of the spirals through the nearer parts in the above examples!


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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 09:30:45 AM » Author: Ash
I can see it too
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Medved
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 02:19:59 PM » Author: Medved
On one lamp you could see there is some extra light behind, but that is by far from twice as bright (as it would be without any losses).
And on the second lamp the "behind" is shielded completely, what give me an impression, than one of the lamps is still not fully warmed up.

With SOX design is quite tight balancing many effects potentially increasing the efficacy of emitted light (lower current density, denser packed tubes, quad instead of double tube,...) and the related drawbacks in selfabsorbtion. On the other hand experiments to address the selfabsorption (linear tubes) didn't survived as well (worse thermal budget, fragile and so not much reliable complex glass forming)

But looking at the spiral, I do not have any impression, than such spiral shape should be much worse than the U-tube.
It for sure lack the preferred direction in the light output (when the tubes are side-by-side; useful for street lighting), but it could be better for tasks requiring fully symmetrical characteristics (where the U-tube emit way less, when one tube is behind the other).

But the question is, what would be the reliability of such complex shape (uniformity of the inner arctube treatment to make the surface resistant towards sodium), even with quite simple U-tube's this is quite troublesome step (one of the reasons, why so few makers were able to produce their own SOX)...
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #9 on: April 08, 2018, 11:48:14 AM » Author: d3anio97
In a dream I had years ago, there was a vapor-tight type fixture by the back door of a Taco Bell with what appeared to be a spiral CFL except when turned on, it glowed a dim reddish-pink then warmed up into the familiar yellow-orange of a low pressure sodium lamp.

Well, a few days ago, I came across this while searching Google for some solar lighting products
http://shinypv.en.alibaba.com/product/500736774-212935356/90W_Nono_low_pressure_sodium_lights.html

This is a 90 watt low pressure sodium lamp with the discharge tube spiraled so it would fit into what appears to be a 35 watt sized outer envelope. Its marketed by China based Shandong Blessed Huihuang PV Energy Co, LTD who makes photovoltaic modules and solar powered lighting products.


I SO need to track one of these down!! I have a 35w SOX fixture that would look super cool with one of these in it!!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:52:11 AM by d3anio97 » Logged

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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 06:55:39 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Shocked Whoa that is cool .. had no idea such a thing existed Shocked
..Like d3anio97 I'd love to have one..
I wonder if they just operate on a standard 90w SOX ballast? (and/or could be operated on some sorta existing fluorescent ballast - like one of the Fulham's ? )
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 06:05:51 AM » Author: sox35
This was 6 years ago, they don't appear to be in production any more. The link goes nowhere, anyway.
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 10:02:10 PM » Author: d3anio97
This was 6 years ago, they don't appear to be in production any more. The link goes nowhere, anyway.
Yeah which is a huge bummer.  I guess my next venture will be glass blowing and sputtering for homemade SOX production then... could be cool to toy around with other alkali metals in a SOX like configuration for laughs too... low pressure potassium anyone? Or can I interest you in NaK? Lol
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Re: Spiral low pressure sodium lamp « Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 10:28:46 AM » Author: sox35
The main difficulty with spiral LPS lamps is that the light generated at the innermost parts of the lamp just doesn't make it to the outside, due to self-absorption.
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