Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « on: December 08, 2013, 07:17:16 AM » Author: dor123
I just notified that during cycling and hot restriking of HPS lamps, while with superimposed ignitors, The hot restrike looks like a glow that gets brighter and brighter constantly as the lamp cools down, this is different with Eltam and our local made semi-parallel. With the Eltam ES-50 and similar low frequency pulses, the flashing aren't gets brighter and brighter at the same manner as the glow of a superimposed ignitor, instead they may be either at a constant brightness from the moment the lamp extingushed with only near the restrike momentraily getting brighter instantly, or that they initially won't be visibe at all, and after some seconds would appear at a constant brightness. With the Eltam ES-PI 1000 smart ignitor (Which is also a semi-parallel ignitor, but of 50hz), I've seen that its have also a different glow mannter than the superimposed ignitors: Every time its sends 50hz pulses during its 5 secs try, the glow is always at a constant brightness, regardless of the arctube temperature (Its glow can be easily visible above the thermal afterglow of the arctube, even if it try shortly after the lamp extingushed, a thing that can't occurs with superimposed ignitors). So there is a situation that a semi-parallel ignitor that operates at 50hz may have a different hot restrike show on HPS lamps, than a superimposed ignitor?
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	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #1 on: December 08, 2013, 07:47:44 AM » Author: Medved
As the lamp cool down, the ignitor pulses create a corona inside of the lamp. It then depend on the ignitor output power, how bright this corona become, even at varying lamp temperature. So no wonder, different ignitors provide different show in that matter.
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	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 11:20:43 AM » Author: dor123
A semi-parallel ignitor uses the ballast as its transformer for pulse generator. A superimposed ignitor have its own transformer for pulse generator. Generally what caused me wondering if the hot restrike show of 50hz semi-parallel ignitors, is different than that of superimposed ignitors (Which operates at 50hz anyway) is because: 1. With superimposed ignitor I always see a dim sodium glow that gets brighter until it reaches a limit where the mercury gets ionised and the lamp strikes. 2. With Eltam ES-50 and other local made low frequency pulses ignitor, I always see the lamp flashes at a constant brightness and colour regardless of arctube temperature, and only sometimes gets brighter (And usually bluer on that moment) instantly near the moment of the restriking (Sometimes they are invisible)(The flashes don't just gradually gets brighter and brighter as the glow of superimposed ignitors). 3. With the Eltam ES-PI 1000 smart 50hz semi-ignitor, each time the ignitor send pulses for about 5 secs, the lamp glows at a constant brightness and at an orange colour, regardless of the arctube temperature (Even if this is shortly after the lamp extingushing), until the successful try reaches. And I means to lamps that aren't so much leaked, and that don't restrike at a pure bluish mercury colour and have a long cooling down period (Like most cyclers that I've see). All of these ignitors that I mentioned, are of 4-5KV.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 11:53:21 AM » Author: Medved
The semiparallel ignitors use rather high energy, but slower (in rise/fall time) pulses. So it will create distinct sparks (low frequency nature, high energy). The superimposed "100Hz" ignitors have very steep rise/fall edges, sometimes generate a burst of pulses in each mains half wave, but the energy is rather small. The result would be mainly the corona (the high frequency nature), maybe very tiny sparks (low energy) And the low frequency (<1 pulse per mains cycle) use higher voltages and energies, but the repetition frequency is so low, the ionization significantly decays before the next pulse. So some corona, sparks, but more loud than luminous.
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	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 12:14:44 PM » Author: dor123
So HF pulses semi-paralel ignitors operates at 50hz, generates high energy and mainly sparks, and superimposed ignitors operates at 100hz, generates low energy and mainly corona discharge and less sparks, and hence the different behavior of the glow discharge with each type of ignitor. Thanks.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 11:46:56 PM » Author: Medved
The semiparallel pulse at every half cycle (so 100Hz), but the superimposed very frequently generate train of multiple pulses for each of the half cycle, although guaranteed is only single pulse per half cycle (so 100Hz as well; it depend on may factors, including capacitance of the wires to the lamp, temperature,...). So the frequency of the superimposed could reach kHz range during that burst...
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	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 01:18:06 AM » Author: dor123
Ah.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 05:31:25 AM » Author: dor123
Btw, so why our local made low frequency pulses semi-parallel ignitors (Which are all HPS ignitors), tends to have a very long cooling down periods on MH lamps? The former Philips HPI-T 400W in a floodlight on Ein-Hayam elementary school, hot restriked after approx 15-20 mins of cooling down with ~10 mins of flashing on Eltam ES-50 5hz semi-parallel HPS ignitor. The same lamp hot restriked after 2 mins for another member on a 100hz ignitor (Which I don't know if it is semi-parallel or superimposed). The Osram HQI-BT 400W/D on the stock ramp of Carmel hospital have approx 10 mins cooling down period on Eltam ES-50 4hz ignitor and the 250W version of this lamp, hot restruck after about half the time on a 100hz ignitor (Again, of an unknown type).
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Are different ignitors may exhibits different hot restrike glows on HPS lamps? « Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 02:46:41 AM » Author: Medved
With the 100Hz ignitor the pause between pulses is maximum 10ms, what is quite short time, so after the first pulse the gas remain somehow ionized when the next one appear. That mean the next one is able to ionize it even more, so more likely to ignite the arc. So even when single pulse isnot able to igniteit, the train of 100Hz pulses ignite it way easily. If the pulses are too far from each other, the ionization decay between them, so the lamp have to cool down so, the single pulse is able to sucessfuly ignite it. So when translating to the cool down, the lamp does not have to cool down so much to get ignited by the >100Hz ignitor, as it require for the 10Hz or below.
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