Author Topic: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone?  (Read 8583 times)
BlueHalide
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Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « on: January 04, 2015, 11:36:26 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Doing a retrofit at a warehouse that is still currently using these noticeably quite old 2-lamp F40T12 Preheat fittings. I have no idea the age of these nor the brand, the starters are located on the side of the fixture, 2 starters, one per lamp. The ballasts are super long and narrow and are magnetic (look original to fixture) with no ballast label and the leads all have braided insulation. Some have been converted to rapid start T12 magnetic but the majority still have the very old looking long and skinny no-name preheat ballasts. Until today I have never seen 200+ F40T12s preheat start all at once but its quite the awesome sight. Ill get more pics up soon, the ballasts especially, ive never seen anything like them. Btw I get to keep as many of these lights as I want (theres about 100 of them).
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BlueHalide
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 11:40:32 PM » Author: BlueHalide
There are two main types, the fixtures in the pics above, and these "Day-Brite" fixtures, which some use 3 lamps, in which appear that 2 lamps are on a single starter and the third lamp has its own starter. Again, same long magnetic ballasts with the old braided insulation and either no label or the label has come unglued from the ballast and is no longer readable
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BlueHalide
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 11:56:25 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Also the majority of the lamps are USA made Westinghouse with the black endcaps, and are kind of a greenish cool white in color. There are also alot of these "ITT" brand lamps that are much warmer in color like a 3500K almost
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 01:15:41 AM » Author: Silverliner
The first pics are of Sylvania fixtures. The second fixture is a Day-Brite, of course. They date to WWII. Awesome find, and soo happy you are saving em all! Have you thought of taking pics of the lamps? I'd like to see the etches.

I would like a few of these fixtures, but no more room at the moment. Perhaps later.
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 02:31:37 AM » Author: nicksfans
You just scored big time...this might be the L-G find of the year and it's only January 5th! I wish I could find something like this! Take every last one! If you don't want them all, there are plenty of people who will take some off your hands. Where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?
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BlueHalide
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 12:29:30 PM » Author: BlueHalide
wow, I knew they were old, but never thought that old. Ill be back there tomorrow to start the job so ill stuff as many in my truck as I can every day  ;D The few I removed last Friday to take these pics were all in great condition just super dusty. I especially like the Day-Brite 3-lamp units and will definitely clean a few of those up for my garage. I am in Milwaukee, WI, so if anyone is willing to drive here to grab a few thats fine. They weigh a ton for an F40T12 fixture, super heavy duty compared to today's crap. Interestingly enough, the building owner told me this warehouse/factory was shut down from 1992 to today, so these lights have been unused for the last 22 years. I really wish those preheat ballasts still had their sticker, theyre about 20" long, and only 2-3" wide(like a modern day T5 ballast) but magnetic of course, so unusual. 
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BlueHalide
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 12:40:29 PM » Author: BlueHalide
@Nicksfan, get a job as a commercial lighting tech, youll run into this kind of stuff every once in awhile during the retrofits, energy upgrades, relamping and whatnot
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 01:02:36 PM » Author: nicksfans
Oh, Wisconsin is a bit far. ;D Guess I can't provide a home to any.
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 04:28:32 PM » Author: Silverliner
Are these westy fluorescents "cool green"? Perhaps someday I'll talk with you about saving some, maybe will travel to WI with a friend.

I'm working towards becoming an electrician. :)
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 05:51:27 PM » Author: BlueHalide
hmmm, now that you mention it, they did seem about the color of cool green, but they could also simply be old EOL halophosphate cool whites, most lamps had excessive end blackening(3-4" of black banding), of course I didnt look closely at all 100 fixtures, so the next two days should be interesting, what kind of other surprises I find. I did however notice lots of black endcap westys that all I remember seeing was "USA" Westinghouse stamped on them, and also quite a few of the warm white ITT lamps that appeared to be used for spot relamping the westys when they failed. Ill save as many lamps as I can fit into the new empty T8 cases as I complete the new installation. (Theyre getting F32T8 strips with 741 Altos).
If anybody really wants a fixture, I guess I could ship granted recipient pays shipping of course. I have no idea what that cost would be though, the fixtures are big and easily weigh 30lbs each if not more.

 
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #10 on: January 07, 2015, 11:40:37 AM » Author: DieselNut
WOW!!!!  Awesome score!  The long ballasts are most likely Advance "AD LITE".  I have several fixtures with those.  I LOVE the Sylvania HF100 fixtures and have 50 something of them and around 100 Miller 2 and 3 tube ones, plus some General Electrics of similar design.  I got almost all of my Sylvania HF 100s from a customer of mine who I retrofitted the lights for.  I replaced them with "troffer" type 4x34 watt and they gave me all the old lights.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 01:11:19 PM by DieselNut » Logged

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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 10:15:01 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Alright, some good news and bad news. Good news is I saved 72 fixtures (most of which are the sylvania type in my first pics), the remaining 35 fixtures I (dare I say) tossed out as they had either noticeable cosmetic damage (cracked reflector coating) which appears to be porcelain or some type of ceramic, or were re-ballasted with relatively modern (1970's-1980's) rapid start ballasts. And I simply dont have the space for 35 more fixtures. So the 72 fixtures I saved are in near perfect condition (I cleaned one up tonight) and it looks new. Bad news, the fixtures with the old, elongate ballasts will NOT operate modern F40T12's for some reason. I tested at least 15 fixtures that contain the long, skinny ballasts with new lamps (Sylvania 40w deluxe cool white), they preheat and start normally but operation is terrible, they wildly flicker and striate, some cause a stroboscopic effect and it never gets any better no matter how long I leave it running. When I put the old, worn, near EOL blackenders back in, it works totally fine again. I even tried new GE 34w watt-misers and that was even worse. The 3-lamp Day-brites contain old, but more normal looking Advance ballasts, which run the new lamps just as well as the old westys with no problems. Why does this happen?? Btw DieselNut I looked up Advance AD LITE and yes, these long ballasts appear to be those, I read they were sometimes called "long johns" by Advance. I will continue to test different brands of T12s on these fixtures but it doesnt look good. And the majority of the old, existing lamps that were in these fixtures maybe have another 400-800 hours on them tops.
My camera refuses to focus on the etch of the lamps, but the two main types I found were;

PHILIPS
Westinghouse Lamps
F40T10/CW/99
COOL WHITE
40w EXTENDED SERVICE
USA
 
WESTINGHOUSE
40w Cool White
....U.S.A.....

Both had black endcaps
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 10:34:34 PM » Author: nicksfans
There has been speculation on here that some of the new F40s might have different electrical properties, but I think this confirms it, unless you just got a bad batch of lamps. Maybe try some of the new Ace Utility F40s, which are relabeled GEs, or Philips Altos. You could also try buying some F40T10s online...they're a bit pricey but maybe the ballasts will be happier. It is strange, though; I've used post-2012 Sylvania Cool White Deluxes in my preheaters (HPF too!) with no ill effects.

Do you have a way to measure the line current of the ballast, like a Kill-a-Watt? I'd be interested to see if the new lamps change the current draw or power factor at all.

I suspect the Westy ballasts might have failing capacitors, unless they're just REALLY fussy about lamps, or like I said, you got a bad batch of lamps. I'm still having trouble believing that the modern F40s could be THAT different electrically from the older ones.

And finally, you didn't happen to save the ballasts from the damaged fixtures you tossed, did you?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:38:23 PM by nicksfans » Logged

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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 11:03:33 PM » Author: DieselNut
I would save ANY undamaged parts from the less desirable fixtures (ballasts, starter sockets, tube sockets, main housings, etc) and you could probably make several good ones out of them. As for the crazy acting tubes, I also have some ballasts that do not like certain tubes. The best ones I have found to use for finicky/hard starting ballasts (preheat and rapid start) are the 25 watt "UTSL"(GE), "Worklite 25" (Phillips) and "Economy" (Sylvania). Full power ballasts will not be harmed by these tubes either. I have an old fixture that has been running one 25 watt tube (along with two 40 watt ones) for years because it refused to start a 40 watt tube, no matter the brand/age. Its ballast is the General Electric "Tulamp" with the larger "brick" size case.
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Re: Preheat F40T12 fixture ID anyone? « Reply #14 on: January 08, 2015, 12:01:09 AM » Author: TheUniversalDave1
I'd have to talk to my dad about it, but could you maybe send one or two fixtures my way? Or save some, I'll be in Milwaukee next June.
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