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gamebox
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #15 on: September 05, 2015, 05:59:01 AM » Author: gamebox
Strange though, my experiences with Philips are completely different. I've bought so far 4 Genie "Energy Saver" CFLs of 8W E14 3U type. To this day, I've spent 3 of them, all of which died unexpectedly fast. Stated lifetime was 8000 hours, yet they lasted on average 5000-5500 hours at most before wearing off the filaments (approximately 2 years of daily service for each). Similar Osram 10000h lamp is used in the very same fixture since 2010, and is still going strong - it certainly worked 8000-9000 hours so far! One Philips Genie lamp exhibited obvious end blackening after as little as a month, and the other one even had it's bottom contact of a E-14 screw break off and "sink in" during installation causing short in the lamp. I had to carefully glue it back on afterwards not to throw the expensive lamp to the trash unused! Also, in my workplace (which is a company from Western Europe, established in 2012) Philips lighting is installed everywhere (MHs in production facilities, T5s in offices, LEDs on roadways). Some of MHs started changing color after something more than a year of use, and many LED streetlights (probably about half of them) are partially broken, having different count of individual LEDs turn on each night. I could also number many TVs and monitors from Philips I've seen that had ridiculously low image quality even at a very young age, some even had to be repaired multiple times. So, Philips would have to do quite a bit to persuade me to buy something else from them in my lifetime, let alone the fact their LED lamps similar to this one cost about 70 euros in my country!
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marcopete87
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #16 on: September 05, 2015, 06:42:32 AM » Author: marcopete87
i don't know where you live, but all thing you saying are telling me something is going wrong with electronics in your country.
I have a lot of led lamps (from different manifacturers), and a lot of electronics in house and work, but everything is going fine.
Also MH don't seems to green out in little time.
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gamebox
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #17 on: September 05, 2015, 02:23:04 PM » Author: gamebox
I'm in Serbia. I don't know what's wrong, but whatever it is it affects Philips only. Osram lamps I've bought so far perform up to expectations (if we leave their dreadful 827 and especially 825 light color aside), GE's are "you get what you pay for" - cheaper than Osram, high quality, but deliberately crafted to serve you shorter as much as you paid less for them. Megaman ones are very good too and seem more than solid, but I still have no "detailed file" on them - the one installed in 2013 and used daily still works, so does another one installed last year. Unfortunatelly, it is getting difficult to find Megaman around here these days, as energy saving lamps are not in high demand due to high prices and many stores reduced assortments on offer. Philips to me was always a company actively looking for ways to cash in as much as possible on any little innovation it can sport out. I remember their halogen E27 retrofit bulbs with ridiculous shape, before "energy saving" halogen retrofits became commonplace, costing something in the range of 20 classic bulbs. I remember their Lumiled company's butt being kicked off by Cree and ending up as a supplier of mediocre flashlight LEDs to equally uninteresting (but overpriced too) Varta torches. I remember their monitors and TV's never had sharp image most Asian imports offered. I also remember paying insultingly high prices for a 100W and 250W SB MV from Philips, only because those were the only 100W and 250W E27 versions on offer. When it comes to LEDs, I bought Osram's GU10 Parathom 4.5W bulb of 35000 hours lifetime for about 10 eur in 2012, and I'm very satisfied by it. It seems to be discontinued, though, as 25000 hour variants flooded stores quickly afterwards - they probably came to conclusion 35k hour lamps will keep buyers too long away from stores... And Philips MV's in question at my workplace are some 5000K variants and they haven't greened out, but arc of some of them occasionally drifts to yellowish shade of sort, to a varying degree, and for varying lengths of time.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:25:47 PM by gamebox » Logged
Roi_hartmann
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #18 on: September 05, 2015, 03:54:55 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
I think its good to keep in mind couple of things when comparing CFL lamps lifespans. First of all, Rated lifetime is almost always with 50% mortality rate. That means only half of the lamps reach rated lifetime. I tried to search but Philips nor Osram did not publish mortality information as an diagram so you could see how steep is the curve.

Also there is a way to make longer life CFLs but that lifts the manufacturing cost also. There are consumer grade CFL and then there is commercial grade ones. Heres some model from Osram:

http://www.osram.com/osram_com/products/lamps/compact-fluorescent-lamps-with-integrated-control-gear/osram-duluxstar/osram-duluxstar-stick/index.jsp
Rated for 6 000hrs and 6 000 switching cycles

http://www.osram.com/osram_com/products/lamps/compact-fluorescent-lamps-with-integrated-control-gear/osram-dulux-intelligent/osram-dulux-intelligent-longlife/index.jsp
Rated for 20 000hrs and 500 000 switching cycles

http://www.osram.com/osram_com/products/lamps/compact-fluorescent-lamps-with-integrated-control-gear/osram-dulux-intelligent/osram-dulux-intelligent-facility/index.jsp
Rated for 20 000hrs and 1 000 000 switchin cycles

Other thing is that I dont think compact fluorescent lamps with integrated ballast are anymore technology that lighting companys are interested spending much in developement. If and when they get LED technology really rolling there is pretty much no need for CFLs. In here Finland, Many shops are now trying to get rid of self ballasted CFLs in stock because LED is pushing so strong and CFL are on really high discount.

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gamebox
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #19 on: September 05, 2015, 05:17:45 PM » Author: gamebox
@Roi_hartmann There sure are big differences between lifetimes of cheapest - consumer grade CFLs, "premium" and professional ones. All the CFLs I have are cheap "consumer" grade and neither is with an "intelligent" ballast - I only keep away from "economy" or "decor" types with lifetimes of 3-6k, as they are mostly false economy since their price is often very close to that of longer living ones, while their lifetimes differ by a bigger percent. That 8W Osram I use since 2010 has 10000h lifetime and 20000 cycles. I know stated lifetime is a statistic type of information and lifetime of each bulb will differ, but 3 Philips bulbs in a row lasting way shorter than expected (and with lifetimes very close to each other and suspiciously close to 6k lifetime mark) does raise some red flags. Meanwhile, all the other bulbs in my house performed as expected (Basic GE T5s, GE CFLs, Osram Halogen energy savers...) and I have replaced only a few.

CFLs are falling out of fashion as a dated offering, though they are still perfectly usable technology. Part of a bad image of CFLs is due to their use being forced by the governments, big names' greed in pricing and lifetime cutting to increase revenue. With CFLs I mistakenly thought "that will be it" when it comes to household lighting technology for a next decade or two and stocked quite a few using various discounts as an opportunity to get them for 1.5-3 eur each. So far, I've put LEDs only in places where they offered significant advantages and/or savings - like 4.5W GU10 read-light, replacing not so ideally bright E14 R40 28W halogen energy saver, and kitchen duct light where a cheap E14 5W CFL look-a-like LED replaced another 28W halogen energy saver giving about 50% more light. In most other places I will keep using CFLs until I spend all spares I have as they are giving me approximately the same energy efficiency and better or equal color rendering as current LEDs. In near future I will be looking for appropriate LEDs to replace my remaining halogen energy savers, put in places where (cheap) CFLs were not best suited because of frequent switching or infrequent use - like bedroom, bathroom and hall.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 05:19:54 PM by gamebox » Logged
marcopete87
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #20 on: September 08, 2015, 02:46:22 AM » Author: marcopete87
using various discounts as an opportunity to get them for 1.5-3 eur each. So far, I've put LEDs only in places where they offered significant advantages and/or savings -

In near future I will be looking for appropriate LEDs to replace my remaining halogen energy savers, put in places where (cheap) CFLs were not best suited because of frequent switching or infrequent use - like bedroom, bathroom and hall.

Actually you can get some good led lamps from Ikea in 4€ price.
I'm replacing all remaining clf from my house and, except one with bad soldering in one module (and lamp garden, which i bought from ebay), none have failed in years of service.
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Silverliner
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #21 on: September 09, 2015, 05:57:39 AM » Author: Silverliner
None of the L-prize lamps failed? That is almost accurate, just not quite. One had a partial failure, the driver for the blue emitters malfunctioned, so the lamp began looking much redder than it should be. Just one out of 2000 lamps is not bad, but claims there are zero failures cannot be accurate.
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marcopete87
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Re: See what LED lamps can do when properly designed... « Reply #22 on: September 10, 2015, 11:49:10 AM » Author: marcopete87
None of the L-prize lamps failed? That is almost accurate, just not quite. One had a partial failure, the driver for the blue emitters malfunctioned, so the lamp began looking much redder than it should be. Just one out of 2000 lamps is not bad, but claims there are zero failures cannot be accurate.

I have two lamps similar L-prize (see http://lamptech.co.uk/Spec%20Sheets/LEDi%20Philips%20806K58RP827-B22d%20Prince.htm), one failed only because bad soldering on an led module; repaired with iron, flux and pb free solder.
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