The light color (at the lamp) may look the same, but the lighting effect on things under the light is not

If a guy is autistic then he is a superman in every parameter including a spectroscope vision ? No it does not work like that. He may be more noticing some things, while not different from non autistics in other things. How can you predict which things RCM "is supposed to" see like or not like non autistics ? I fail to see how is autism even an argument here

You allow yourself to assume that every bad LED i see must be an old design ("5mm" ?), but they are not. Expensive LED products ("proper" luminaires, not retrofits) made in 2016 and sold at electrical / industrial retailers have the exact same problems as LEDs in 2015 and 14 had. And this does not apper to be changing



Optically, LEDs are most commonly implemented as flat COB, flat panel of SMD chips, flat diffused panel, or lens panel. All those options provide more glare than reflector/refractor optics due to size of emitter, directionality, or both

Out of the LED implementations directionality (where needed) is achievable only by the lens panel design, but while the resulting directionality is half decent, this design is exactly the harshest laser in the eye one



The only really expensive component in LED luminaires is the massive volume of Aluminum for the heatsink. Everything else is as cheap as electronics assembly gets. The LED chips do cost, but not much more than a HID or PL lamp of comparable output. However, the profit margins on LEDs is far bigger than on anything else

For the manufacturers this is a key benefit of LED lighting and reason why they are pushing everything towards it : As technology advances making LED chips gets cheaper and cheaper (they are mass printed and moulded at once, not like for example HID arctubes that have to be individually processed, allthough on automated machine), manufacturers can keep profit margins they never could with other lamp technologies. Which makes it profitable business to get LEDs into really everywhere



At Daylight color temps the LEDs stand out the most. The newest busses here are lit mostly with high K (5000..7000 or so) LEDs and its far cry from Fluorescents

Ash - every comments you left that mention LED spectra makes it sounds like you're talking about those 5mm ones and mebbe those eBay COB LEDs.

Those COBs similar to those eBay ones and the 5mm white LEDs is one of thousands variety of LED chips made out there. The spectra quality varies greatly from the nasty ones seen from the 5mm LEDs to the incandescent-like quality that's nearly impossible to tell them apart looking at source and surfaces lit by the light.

Don't believe the "eco design" madness (responsible for all the bans) will stay just in the continetal Europe. As far as I remember, quite big pushers were in London...

It became quite cheap excuse for all politicians to blame "the damned EU" for all things they did against the peoples will.
Yes, that excuse may be harder now, but they will find another one. Do not be so naive and expect they will stop doing such things just because of no obligations towars the EU...

FGS - The problem is not limited to the cheap LEDs. I see what you mean in the cheap LEDs because there it is extreme (and extremely visible too), but it is still common to all LEDs that i see in general lighting



The general "eco design" attitude in the market/industry won't change, only thing is, that specific EU regulations may not be completely ported to the UK. This means that some of the lamps banned in the EU may remain available for the private consumers, allthough they won't be remaining in public property (and that is because of political decisions, not bans)

But at least the UK is liberated from the strangling EU regulations for lighting and efficiency.

But at least the UK is liberated from the strangling EU regulations for lighting and efficiency.

Well, I would guess those regulations will come anyway - it is originally an international political game mainly against China, which went out of hands and even when it is turning against us now, dropping it would mean quite a victory for China...

Quote from: wattMaster on June 25, 2016, 01:30:28 PM

But at least the UK is liberated from the strangling EU regulations for lighting and efficiency.

Well, I would guess those regulations will come anyway - it is originally an international political game mainly against China, which went out of hands and even when it is turning against us now, dropping it would mean quite a victory for China...

Wait, lighting regulations are actually causing a war with China?

Lets see :

 - Manufacture of most legacy lamps (SON, Mercury, Halophosphor FL, PL, CFL, ...) was moved to China over the last decade

 - Electronics (of ballasts and drivers), LEDs, and complete new luminaires are either made entirely in China, or assembled the final step of assembly "in the west" from parts and sub assemblies made in China

Great way to fight against China



Finally, i dont see how dropping all the crap and putting a brake on whats going on in the lighting industry would be a victory for China. It would be a loss, as the sales volumes go down

The hard part is not "letting China win", but the lighting inustry and ecodesign politicians admitting that the better part of what happened in the last few years was nothing short of a mass organized fraud, which would never happen in your dreams with any industry or any politicians

Now I get it. It is indeed fraud.

You know, I've heard that if Don becomes president, we're gonna get t12 and merc back, but I have my doubts.

You know, I've heard that if Don becomes president, we're gonna get t12 and merc back, but I have my doubts.

If that happens, I will be so happy!

Maybe you won't get back whats allready gone, but he looks like he would stop the "we want to take your ...." from expanding, atleast in the things that he himself cares about

Maybe you won't get back whats allready gone, but he looks like he would stop the "we want to take your ...." from expanding, atleast in the things that he himself cares about

That would at least be something, then we just have to delay what is planned to be banned right now.

Mercury actually came to the point of "we dont care anymore", as the proposed ban on it was dropped. As for public lighting replacement projects, its same as UK, those projects are initiatives of local councils and utilities anyway (taht have been tricked but that is a different story), so won't change as result of one or another president winning the elections, unless the president is somehow expert in the thing himself and wants a say on the subject

Anyhow, dont tell me you vote based on lighting preferences. Allthough in this case, they correlate very well with other things this candidate talks sensibly about

You know, I've heard that if Don becomes president, we're gonna get t12 and merc back, but I have my doubts.

What we would get is no more China stuff. Meaning the Don might start a nuclear war with China and the world would be a nuclear wasteland. Since most of our F32T8s are using electronic ballasts while the remaining T12s are on magnetic. So we technically might get T12s back since EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) would have destroyed all the electronics in the States. Aside from the obvious radioactive wasteland the bad news is that LG would be gone since the servers will be fried by the same EMP.

Long story short. The Don is bad news for the US. The Hill is no better herself. There's a third one which is highly likely to be the best choice for the US.


Even Mother Nature approves of Bernie Sanders! Btw. Democratic socialism is nothing like (...) socialism.

Socialism is not evil or freedom-hater. http://m.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/10/729747/-