suzukir122
Member
Offline
Gender: 
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| I haven't really used Halogen or Incandescent lamps nearly as much as fluorescent. As of now, fluorescent lighting is my #1 source of light.
Specifically fluorescent tubes. I've thought about buying a couple Halogen and Incandescent lights from time to time though because I have
to be honest... Incandescent and Halogen/filament based lamps have the best color of all lighting, in my opinion. They really bring out colors the best.
Although the HID lights in my bedroom can compete, I just don't think they bring out colors as well as incandescent lamps.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Interests:
1. Motorcycles, Cars, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weightlifting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Lighting has ALWAYS been a passion of mine. I consider everyone on here to be a friend
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| High Low Off dimmer with a diode ? Doesnt that flicker badly on the Low setting ?
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
sol
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| It does flicker a bit at 60 hz instead of 120 hz but the incandescent afterglow of the filament subdues it enough to be acceptable.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| Incndescent flicker on 50 Hz (with diode) is very noticable. But its both the frequency difference and the filament thickness (so thermal capacity) difference which may be making it worse
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
sol
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| I've noticed, on some occasions only, very slight flicker on standard GLS lamps (I don't remember the wattage) on 230V/50Hz in Europe. I've never seen it here in 120V/60Hz except for the Hi-Lo-Off dimmer which is discussed here. It might have to do with the filament wire thickness.
Then again, I noticed the standard 100Hz flicker in magnetically ballasted lamps in Europe is significantly more noticeable than the 120Hz flicker here in North America.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
dor123
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
Other loves are computers, office equipment, A/Cs
|
| The camera can see the 100hz flickering on 230V 50hz incandescent lamp, but the not the human eyes or the brain.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
|
Lodge
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
18W Goldeye / 52W R&C LED front door lighting
|
The camera can see the 100hz flickering on 230V 50hz incandescent lamp, but the not the human eyes or the brain.
Actually some people have a high critical flicker fusion threshold, and can depending on the conditions actually see the flicker at 120 Hz, and if you move into TV displays some will notice flicker up to 500 Hz, this is why display refresh rates keep getting faster and faster every year, people are not all the same... |
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
dor123
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
Other loves are computers, office equipment, A/Cs
|
| The reason why the humen eyes and brain aren't sensitive to the 100hz of incandescent and halogen lamp, compared to other light source, is because incandescent lamps retains their heat for longer, so the flickering is weak. fluorescent lamps discharge extingushes faster during the flickering than incandescent and halogen (But slower than LED), and exhibits phosphor afterglow when there is no discharge. LEDs extingushes instantly during flickering, with no afterglow when there is no voltage, and because of this, their 100hz flickering is worser than that of fluorescent lamps.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
|
suzukir122
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| @dor123, this is a good point because I have seen a lot of LED's out there that have a hertz flicker so
bad that it's actually visible, even when they aren't at EOL.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Interests:
1. Motorcycles, Cars, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weightlifting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Lighting has ALWAYS been a passion of mine. I consider everyone on here to be a friend
|
FGS
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
Rory Mercury!
|
@dor123, this is a good point because I have seen a lot of LED's out there that have a hertz flicker so
bad that it's actually visible, even when they aren't at EOL.
I haven't seen many LEDs with terrible flickers. I had to go look hard for one for my collection. Took me a couple LEDs before I find one that did that. Most are either on DC or HF. Others simply had really good caps that'd clean up the flickers. Fortunately the type of LEDs I bought a sample of were discontinued a few years ago. (Non filament LED one.) |
|
|
|
Logged
|
Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).
LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.
|
sol
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
The reason why the humen eyes and brain aren't sensitive to the 100hz of incandescent and halogen lamp, compared to other light source, is because incandescent lamps retains their heat for longer, so the flickering is weak. fluorescent lamps discharge extingushes faster during the flickering than incandescent and halogen (But slower than LED), and exhibits phosphor afterglow when there is no discharge. LEDs extingushes instantly during flickering, with no afterglow when there is no voltage, and because of this, their 100hz flickering is worser than that of fluorescent lamps.
Exactly my point. That is the difference between "hard" flicker (LED or uncoated HID) and "soft" flicker (the rest). The "harder" the flicker, the more noticeable it is. The lower mains frequency in Europe makes it more noticeable in every source. I do notice LED flicker with good lamps, however on a dimmer it is excruciatingly bad (like a rectifying fluorescent lamp). |
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
sol
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
Sorry if I sound a bit annoyed in my last post. I confused this thread with this one in which I explain flicker "hardness" and "softness". |
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| HID flicker is quite soft one. I think the determining factor is the duty cycle, and i have a guess why it is not bad with HID :
With magnetic ballast, the current lags after the voltage. Lets look at the moment when the current is at positive maximum and begins to drop. At some point the current drops and arc extinguishes. Since the current is lagging, by this time (zero crossing of the current on its way from positive to negative) the voltage already is nearing the negative maxima, so there is virtually immediately is available voltage to restrike the arc
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
suzukir122
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| I forgot about that... my mom/dad use dim-able LED's in their dining room. Those LED's in particular, run smooth
at full brightness only. They're also a little dimmer than what they use to be, at full brightness. At some point
I plan on going back to check to see what brand those LED's are.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Interests:
1. Motorcycles, Cars, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weightlifting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Lighting has ALWAYS been a passion of mine. I consider everyone on here to be a friend
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| That is some PWM control with way too slow switching frequency. The same problem existed in many laptop LCD backlights. I have no bit of clue why they chose so low frequencies when nothing really limits them from going way higher
But i have even better example.. A friend of mine have a massive heat gun which he bought of ebay. It have off/low/high fan setting with a switch and temperature setting with a dial. When the dial is set around the middle, the gun makes all the lights in the room slightly flicker with about 2 Hz frequency. Apparently that is the frequency at which the heating element is switched to stay at the set temperature (i dont know why they didnt make it phase control like a dimmer)
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
