For the efficacy: Quite common and already not that expensive LEDs are already at 140lm/W with CRI 80+. So it is just a matter of demand, if there would be some lower CRI 200lm/W products. Up to now, the fact is, there is no such demand. Maybe the missing SOX will trigger that, maybe not. Counting just the LEDs, without ballasts, as the compare is withSOX without ballasts as well.

And regarding the SOX area light in energy critical area: Yes, there are not much any other light sources capable of throwing light in all directions with such efficacy. But the point is, many other technologies (and by far not only LED) allow you to direct the light only where it is really needed and do that job for way less energy consumption than a 180W SOX. The point is, the large size simply does not allow any efficient beam cntrol at all. So it may generate the light with very high efficacy, but any lantern throws most of it into the sky or just underneath the lantern, so into not much usable form. You may say you are able to control the beam of a 35W SOX well, once you use large enough reflector, but this has just barely 140lm/W without ballast, modern LEDs have the same, plus rather good quality color as a bonus (if nothing else, at least in the terms of street lighting standards).

Really face it, except really highly specialized applications, the SOX have just a rapidly disappearing legacy installations market. And off grid installations are not any specialized application at all...

And for the Chinese offering: The link had shown just a lantern, it does not say, who made the lamp included in the package...

Currently, but led is developing fast and there is no way to know yet what will it be in 2020 or 2025. This will also mean the price will come down as well. Leds are still very young compared to most other light sources.

The math was done by the Nichia Corporation, they do know the maximum limit to LED's and by 2025 unless the laws of physics change , both Planck's law, and Rayleigh–Jeans law, we do know the maximum mathematically you can obtain with an LED, no matter how much it matures, and if the LED covers 400nm to 700nm it will only be able to get to 251 lumen/watt, and then you have to add driver losses into those equations because the math only dealt with the LED not the total system wattage, also mathematically you can get a much high lumen/watt with monochromatic light at 555nm we can get 683 lumens/watt at 100% efficiency..

Really there is an absolute maximum efficiency achievable by lights, and with prices coming down there is only so much money to put back into R&D and most of it will be spent on making what is available now cheaper not better so I wouldn't expect to see much more improvement on the lumens/watt then you are seeing currently available...

     And for the Chinese offering: The link had shown just a lantern, it does not say, who made the lamp included in the package...

Just a guess but they might be SNAPFAST lamps as seen on Colin's gallery HERE but you are correct it doesn't say anything about the lamp included.

The one and only hope (and its a small one at that) for Philips SOX stuff is that one of the Chinese lamp factories will acquire everything and move it there.....

Haven't they stolen enough..? The Chinese have already decimated our manufacturing industry, I'd rather SOX die than give them something else. I'm fed up with seeing "Made in China" on just about everything, to see it on a SOX lamp would be the last straw  

Haven't they stolen enough..? The Chinese have already decimated our manufacturing industry, I'd rather SOX die than give them something else. I'm fed up with seeing "Made in China" on just about everything, to see it on a SOX lamp would be the last straw  

I'd have to disagree with you... i'd rather it not die, if the chinese can save it, let them.

I'd prefer the proper UK made Philips lamps, but I'd rather have a Chinese made SOX lamp, than have no SOX lamps.

I'd prefer the proper UK made Philips lamps, bit I'd rather have a Chinese made SOX lamp, than have no SOX lamps.

I'm afraid I wouldn't. I saw a video once about what the Chinese do to cats, I will never forget it  

Call me an emotional female if you want, but it's how I feel.

Completely understand where you are coming from the way the Chinese treat animals including cats and dogs skinned alive is terrible. Everything has China on it now almost all tridonic products. Even if China do take on SOX it will most likely only be the 35 and 55 I doubt very much they will make the 90/135/180 or any of the sox E wattages such a shame. If it's not LED it crap attitude of the modern world!

I'm afraid I wouldn't. I saw a video once about what the Chinese do to cats, I will never forget it 

You have the right to disagree with me, but it's how I feel.

Well if someone from the west doesn't step up, it just might happen and the production might move to China, and they are not the only place to do things to cats, and we shouldn't judge an entire country based on the fact a few idiots happen to live there, really every country in the world has there fair share of them...

Well if someone from the west doesn't step up, it just might happen and the production might move to China, and they are not the only place to do things to cats, and we shouldn't judge an entire country based on the fact a few idiots happen to live there, really every country in the world has there fair share of them...

Maybe I shouldn't judge an entire country, and I do try not to, but seeing "Made in China" on just about everything is getting a bit much. I would rather production end here and now, sorry. In any case, what is the point in continuing production when there is little or no customer base..? Otherwise why have Philips taken the decision to close down..? That has already been thrashed to death here.

This really is my last word on this thread.

As far as i was aware the chinese had stopped manufacturing SOX due to the poor life. Weather they have or will start again i have no idea. I tested 2 of their sox lamps, dusk - dawn one 35w and one 55w, and i only got a year out of each of them.

As most people here have said, the demand worldwide for SOX lamps is dropping at a rate of hundreds a day i imagine, just take a look at the UK, theres mass waste schemes going on over here where councils and parishes etc even private installs are ripping their perfectly good sox, son, fluoro even now cosmo fittings out for LED. So as nice as it sounds, making our own lamps will fail.

Sadly SOX has had its day, so has everything else not LED as well.

Cosmo is still relitively new, but thats had its day too that will be extinct soon i know pfi schemes that used cosmo are now on ripping it out on invest to save schemes. Long T5 fluorescent tubes have had their day here too theyll go extinct i know of loads of T5 going, so has HF. I estimate that at least over 50% of every light source in the UK is now LED. And the first LED fitting lamp etc i seen was 2011.

As ive said with the demand for sox falling at this rate as much as it kills me to say this, its just not worth them being manufactured any more plus apart from the job lots of  soxes for sale on ebay, the price is rapidly increasing.


As for anything made in china with mercury content we will be waving goodbye to that as a while ago i saw a post somewhere that said the chinese will ban lamps with mercury content i think in 2021 which i wish was a lie!

This visit to hamilton sounds cool though.

As far as i was aware the chinese had stopped manufacturing SOX due to the poor life. Weather they have or will start again i have no idea. I tested 2 of their sox lamps, dusk - dawn one 35w and one 55w, and i only got a year out of each of them.

As most people here have said, the demand worldwide for SOX lamps is dropping at a rate of hundreds a day i imagine, just take a look at the UK, theres mass waste schemes going on over here where councils and parishes etc even private installs are ripping their perfectly good sox, son, fluoro even now cosmo fittings out for LED. So as nice as it sounds, making our own lamps will fail.

Sadly SOX has had its day, so has everything else not LED as well.

Cosmo is still relitively new, but thats had its day too that will be extinct soon i know pfi schemes that used cosmo are now on ripping it out on invest to save schemes. Long T5 fluorescent tubes have had their day here too theyll go extinct i know of loads of T5 going, so has HF. I estimate that at least over 50% of every light source in the UK is now LED. And the first LED fitting lamp etc i seen was 2011.

As ive said with the demand for sox falling at this rate as much as it kills me to say this, its just not worth them being manufactured any more plus apart from the job lots of  soxes for sale on ebay, the price is rapidly increasing.


As for anything made in china with mercury content we will be waving goodbye to that as a while ago i saw a post somewhere that said the chinese will ban lamps with mercury content i think in 2021 which i wish was a lie!

This visit to hamilton sounds cool though.

I can confirm same happening here with the exception that the sox dissappeared long ago. Local junk yard has few sox shoe-box fixtues in use and one local bridge use them as decorative lighting but all few others around the city were removed 15 years ago.

I have also noticed that despite all those fixtures being replaced by led, the market for used fixtures has pretty much dried out. Nobody seems to want them anymore so people just throw those to trash without even trying to get few euros for selling. That's kind of sad from collectors stand point.

As for the cat / dog thing the way they see animals is different to us, they mass breed them for food not just the odd person mistreating them we have those idiots here too

Yeah on the UK ebay there is a large number of sellers selling ex council used lanterns and apart from collectors buying them, it doesnt look like anyone else does. However go back 10 years ago when i first joined ebay, youd be in a bidding war against a few bidders over sonething as simple as a Thorn Beta 5 and nowadays they can be listed for months even years without anyone buying them.  The market for second hand lanterns on ebay here started drying up about 4 years ago. However SOX lamps is totaly different those seem to sell no problem.  It will not be long until SOX is as rare as SO/H or SLI/H lamps.

I wonder what we will still be able to buy and what will still be being made in 10 years time, in 2027?
Would T8 tubes and 2D lamps go extinct by then, what about HPS?