Philips are going to close the SOX production plant in Scotland in 2020

 - Many of us would like to see the technology kept alive, even if as a low demand item

 - When the production equipment will become unneeded for Philips, it may become available to buy for very cheap price, downto its value in scrap metal

Joining the two together, we (as community) might be in a position to purchase the equipment from Philips and keep it, and then try running it again. The cost of doing this may come out dramatically lower than assumed



I put this as a proposition, and am interested to see whether this can be done and how. I am looking for who might be interested in this happening, and would like to either 1. take part, or 2. point out possible problems and concerns

Please post your arguments for and against with appropriate reasoning, which can be discussed



I am asking to NOT do one thing in this thread : If you think this project can't succeed or there is a non-resolvable problem with it, don't force your opinion that it cannot be done. Present it and explain why, or just don't do anything

While I won't lock this thread yet, if you keep beating a dead horse, I might have too, instead of just talking about it, try doing something about it? Singling out some members makes you unliked by the community.

I have one question, who do we contact to ask about the old equipment?

Here is some points that comes to my mind.

-we can forget supplying existing customers with new lamps since they won't be waiting for us to maybe learn to make lamps. They are not taking the risk to see if we get it done.

-I would like to see an estimate of cost of space that is big enought, has big enought electricity grid connection to be able to supply the equiptments and most likely we need big enough supply for gas for the burners. Depending where it's located in climatewise, it may need to be heated one to protect the equiptments fot harsh winter.

-estimate for the sheer cost of transporting the equiptment.

-is there any part or material in the process of making sox that need any special permission. This also include storaging of raw materials.

Ash,

You have done this to death, and it's getting very monotonous. It is a nice idea, but at the end of the day we're collectors of lamps, not manufacturers.

As to presenting you with facts why it can't be done I refer you to James' post on the original thread, have a read of it here for yourself as you don't want to believe it.

Can we please put an end to this now.?

Ash,

You have done this to death, and it's getting very monotonous. It is a nice idea, but at the end of the day we're collectors of lamps, not manufacturers.

As to presenting you with facts why it can't be done I refer you to James' post on the original thread, have a read of it here for yourself as you don't want to believe it.

Can we please put an end to this now.?

It's still worth a shot anyway, what is there to lose?

I have one question, who do we contact to ask about the old equipment?

This gotta be an inside contact in Philips, who is related to the SOX plant. I do have a direction via which it would be likely to find the right contact in this case

In the general case, such contacts are most likely to be found via knowing somebody from the company, who then can direct you to the right contact

Here is some points that comes to my mind.

-we can forget supplying existing customers with new lamps since they won't be waiting for us to maybe learn to make lamps. They are not taking the risk to see if we get it done.

-I would like to see an estimate of cost of space that is big enought, has big enought electricity grid connection to be able to supply the equiptments and most likely we need big enough supply for gas for the burners. Depending where it's located in climatewise, it may need to be heated one to protect the equiptments fot harsh winter.

-estimate for the sheer cost of transporting the equiptment.

-is there any part or material in the process of making sox that need any special permission. This also include storaging of raw materials.

1.
Nobody will likely even know that we took on making the lamps, before we actually make them, so nobody will wait

Many of the existing SOX luminaires installed anywhere are worn out and it is time to replace them. Ideally they should be replaced with SON luminaires, as SON provides excellent efficacy, good optical efficiency (in modern luminaires) far exceeding that of "traditional SOX road lantern" designs, similar light color and no disadvantages compared to the SOX for most applications. In reality many of them will be replaced with LED. This is out of the scope of this discussion

By the time we get SOX going again, there will be little demand for replacement lamps for old luminaires. There may be still a few around, either ones in which a pre-2020 lamp still lasted, or ones that were relamped after 2020 with lamps existing in stock. Possibly mostly ones in private use in the UK

My main proposition is not keeping the old SOX form factors for relamping existing luminaires, but few new form factors :

 - Self ballasted SOX with screw base (CFL style)

 - SLI/H lamp in wattages similar to Fluorescent wattages, aimed to work on existing Fluorescent gear and be drop in, high light output replacement for Fluorescent lamps on both magnetic and HF gear. That means, not the old 60/140/200W of the original SLI/H, but something like 18/36/58W. (the much shorter arc tube of SOX will be centered in a longer tube of the matching Fluorescent size)

 - SLI/H lamp in wider selection of wattages, self ballasted with an electronic ballast in the outer bulb (or in the end cap), aimed to fit in a Fluroescent luminaire and work either on direct 230V, or on magnetic gear (without making use of it for ballasting i.e. just drawing current through the choke), in identical way to how LED tubes work, being interchangeable with LED tubes in the same luminaires

 - SOX in PL-T form factor, following the PL-T wattages

By chosing those form factors, the SOX lamps become interchangeable with other common lamp types and not require special luminaires and gear anymore. This enables introducing them as an additional lamp choice for wide range of applications

Since the equipment is capable of making the old form factors, it will remain possible, just not the main use



The SOX lamps in the new form factors will be aimed at :

 - Applications where a high output, energy efficient source is required, without the glare of high output LED solutions

 - Applications where a LED retrofit proved inadequate due to too low light output, especially when involving ex-Fluorescent or ex-HID luminaires in which the gear was bypassed or removed for the LED use

 - Applications where the Yellow light is preferred for its color (architectural, outdoor, etc), for its quality of not interfering with wildlife or with sleep (in areas near wildlife, or where the light attracting insects is a problem, or when light is needed yet it is impossible to avoid it getting into windows), and for where safety lighting is needed under heavy fog conditions

 - "HID without requiring a proper HID luminaire" (SOX can be powered at HF, which means the requirements for an electronic ballast for SOX are far simpler than those for HID. Basically, SOX can do with a CFL-design ballast)

 - Special fancy design lamp with fire-glow-like light, wicked startup, and so on (aiming at about the same area which is now occupied with the modern "carbon filament" lamps, fire glow simulation lamps etc)



2.
For the size and needed supplies we have to check the Philips equipment

For atleast some evaluation, the equipment of the Airam factory (which you posted about a while back), according to answers i got from people inside Airam, took a space of 50 m^2 and had not any documented requirements for special electrical supply (I guess 400V, 3 phases x 25A would do). The heating was done by gas burners

Powerful gas burners may use a lot of gas but so does any ordinary oven at a bakery. The gas hardware required is standard. It's just that they will drain the tanks fast and require to return the tanks for refill more often

The Airam equipment included making the stem assemblies from tubing, connecting filaments, sealing bulbs, assembling bases, and focusing&QA. No glass blowing



3.
 - Truck with crane for loading/unloading, ~7m long x 2.5m wide open bed, carrying on the truck up to ~9 ton and lifting with the crane up to ~4.5 ton

 - Packed equipment on the truck as densely as possible, used up every square millimeter

 - 100km distance

 - between 1500..2500 ILS (340..570 Euro)/trip, those are costs from 2 shipping providers i worked with when moving my stuff



4.
Sodium : Burns and forms corrosive substances on contact with Water. Dangerous to touch. Can be safely stored submerged in Paraffin or some other substances. I have not found any information about requiring approvals. Separating it into small doses (of the quantities present in school science lab etc) and storing them in separate vessels is a good additional measure i'd take

Indium Oxide : Appears to not be classified as any hazardous material

Krypton-85 : Mildly radioactive gas. It is possible to avoid using it altogether by adding a small glow discharge capsule (bought ready-made) inside the lamp, or not adding anything if the lamp is not required to be able to start in complete darkness

Ash,

You have done this to death, and it's getting very monotonous. It is a nice idea, but at the end of the day we're collectors of lamps, not manufacturers.

As to presenting you with facts why it can't be done I refer you to James' post on the original thread, have a read of it here for yourself as you don't want to believe it.

Can we please put an end to this now.?

Yup, Ash, stop this, it's just getting annoying now, unless someone has contact with the person actually in control of this, I don't see the need to keep beating a dead horse.
Ash, why don't you go to the plant and talk to them yourself? As you seem to be the only one interested in this. I'm sure others are too, but give it a rest, please!
Thread closed