Author Topic: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts?  (Read 864 times)
dor123
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2345
View Gallery
Other loves are computers, office equipment, A/Cs


Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « on: June 04, 2018, 05:09:13 AM » Author: dor123
I've noticed that the Americans take care about the power factor of their ballast more than any other parts around the world. In Israel for example, this subject is usually ignored, and I think that the European also don't take care so much about the power factor of their ballasts.
Why this is the case?
Logged

I"m don't speak english well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I hope that LED won't replace all forms of other light

suzukir122
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556
View Gallery


suzukir123
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 08:44:42 PM » Author: suzukir122
As an American, I... don't know the answer. Grin I too, want to know why.
Logged

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

RyanF40T12
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 658
View Gallery

Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #2 on: June 05, 2018, 12:33:38 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
We like clean power factors? 
Logged

The more you hate the LED movement, the stronger it becomes.

streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 322
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL 88219189@N04/albums
WWW
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #3 on: June 05, 2018, 06:52:58 PM » Author: streetlight98
It's usually only a concern with larger (typically industrial) buildings since they have large motor loads and will get billed extra for low power factor by the utility company. Ironically most utility-owned street lights have NPF ballasts (at least here).
Logged

#167

funkybulb
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 572
View Gallery


Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 07:16:30 PM » Author: funkybulb
It seems most people here thinks Powerfactor  means full power lfluorescent lamp brightness it seems on here
But this not the case.  There are full power normal power factor balkast around.  Power factor all it does  is to make
Help keep power current in phase with voltage. 
Logged

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 322
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL 88219189@N04/albums
WWW
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 07:20:48 PM » Author: streetlight98
yeah BALLAST factor and POWER factor are two completely different things. However, in the case of magnetic ballasts, LPF ballasts tend to have a lower ballast factor than HPF ballasts, likely to keep overall line current down, since a LPF ballast with a 1.0 ballast factor would have very high current draw (but wouldn't consume any more power than a HPF version with the same ballast factor).
Logged

#167

MissRiaElaine
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1134
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


ATL missriaelaine
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 06:18:39 AM » Author: MissRiaElaine
I don't think it's just an American thing, I always include a PFC capacitor on my discharge lamps, if only for the fact that it makes the installation complete. I build display boards and it's important to me that they're correct. If the manufacturer of the ballast specifies a PFC, then a PFC it will get. Depending on what I have in stock, it may not be the exact value specified, but it will be as close as I can get it.
Logged

Ria in Aberdeen

I don't disapprove of LED's for domestic and other indoor use, I just don't like them for street lighting.

sol
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 942
View Gallery

Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #7 on: June 06, 2018, 05:36:38 PM » Author: sol
It's usually only a concern with larger (typically industrial) buildings since they have large motor loads and will get billed extra for low power factor by the utility company. Ironically most utility-owned street lights have NPF ballasts (at least here).

Maybe your utility has a separate street light circuit in the poles, which could get power factor correction through a centralized bank of capacitors rendering them useless in individual street lights (and in the process eliminate capacitor fault in street lights).
Logged
streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 322
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL 88219189@N04/albums
WWW
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #8 on: June 06, 2018, 07:01:17 PM » Author: streetlight98
No the street lights are all powered right off the transformers that feed the houses. Same goes for underground; the lights are never on their own circuits except for utility-owned freeway lights, which are still wired directly off "pole pig" transformers, just on their exclusive underground circuit from the transformer onward.

The utility overcharges for street lights anyway so they definitely make their money back. They charge an annual rental/maintenance fee ranging from $50 to $175 a year depending on the wattage and then they charge the estimated kWh usage. They don't bill for 50, 70, 100, 150, etc watts either, they bill weird wattages that included ballast losses. So those wattages end up being something weird like 62, 85, 118, 173W etc.

the larger wattages (250 and 400) already have capacitors too, being CWA type. They fail often in the GE lights.
Logged

#167

RyanF40T12
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 658
View Gallery

Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #9 on: June 06, 2018, 08:47:41 PM » Author: RyanF40T12
Yup.  We get a $70.00 street light surcharge once a year I think, maybe twice a year.  But given the fact that they do such a good job taking care of the lighting here and are quick to respond to service requests, I don't mind so much.  Now if I lived in an area with no street lighting, that would be different. 
Logged

The more you hate the LED movement, the stronger it becomes.

Lightingguy1994
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 345
View Gallery


Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 02:38:00 PM » Author: Lightingguy1994
I find ballasts with a power factor correcting cap work better and give more reliable performance. NPF 2lamp F40 ballasts seem to run like crap while their HPF counterparts are less likely to. I also prefer my lights to draw less current
Logged
suzukir122
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556
View Gallery


suzukir123
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 04:50:43 AM » Author: suzukir122
Although I don't really know the major details as to why Power Factor is important, I can definitely say that HPF rapid
start magnetic fluorescent lighting, is what started it all in terms of my interest in lighting in general.
Logged

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

Men of God
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 66
View Gallery


jiachao.wei.71 chao990613
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 08:32:36 AM » Author: Men of God
在20世纪70年代之前,我们中国的30-40W以上的荧光灯还是要强制安装电容器的,要不然供电局不给送电!
Logged

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3989
View Gallery

Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #13 on: July 05, 2018, 11:33:34 AM » Author: Medved
I find ballasts with a power factor correcting cap work better and give more reliable performance. NPF 2lamp F40 ballasts seem to run like crap while their HPF counterparts are less likely to. I also prefer my lights to draw less current

But that is not about the power factor per se, but about the ballast quality in general.
The good lamp operation is one consequence of a good ballast design, high power factor use to be just another such consequence. Or better said, when you want to make a good behaving autotransformer based RS ballast, the cheapest way to do that happens to inherently yield a good power factor.
It is only when you sacrifice the lamp operation quality to get further cost reduction, only then you get the NPF RS ballast.

But there is nothing to prevent the existence of a good operating ballast (towards the lamp) from being a NPF. A good example is a series choke preheat circuit.
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

589
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 365
View Gallery

Knight of the D-line streetlights


589
Re: Why the Americans so much take care about the PF of their ballasts? « Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 09:26:44 PM » Author: 589
No the street lights are all powered right off the transformers that feed the houses. Same goes for underground; the lights are never on their own circuits except for utility-owned freeway lights, which are still wired directly off "pole pig" transformers, just on their exclusive underground circuit from the transformer onward.

The utility overcharges for street lights anyway so they definitely make their money back. They charge an annual rental/maintenance fee ranging from $50 to $175 a year depending on the wattage and then they charge the estimated kWh usage. They don't bill for 50, 70, 100, 150, etc watts either, they bill weird wattages that included ballast losses. So those wattages end up being something weird like 62, 85, 118, 173W etc.

the larger wattages (250 and 400) already have capacitors too, being CWA type. They fail often in the GE lights.

Yup.  We get a $70.00 street light surcharge once a year I think, maybe twice a year.  But given the fact that they do such a good job taking care of the lighting here and are quick to respond to service requests, I don't mind so much.  Now if I lived in an area with no street lighting, that would be different. 

Jeez id do that if I could, last I talked with the local EMC they wanted $35/month for a 150w HPS DG cobra head on the utility pole so I didn't do it, makes me want to re-ask to see if I mis-heard them and they meant per year!
Logged

Low Pressure Sodium

Print 
© 2005-2018 Lighting-Gallery.net | Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines