Author Topic: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules  (Read 7703 times)
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #15 on: May 18, 2019, 07:26:52 PM » Author: rjluna2
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #16 on: May 19, 2019, 11:24:09 AM » Author: Lumex120
Many of the ridiculous policies of the previous administration need to be reversed. And another thorn, these silly fuel "cans" that you buy and must play with for 5 minutes to get the fuel to disburse is insane. Try holding up a five gallon jug and having to push the slide in and then up to get the fuel out.
Oh yeah those new fuel cans are horrible. I have an old one that just has a cap you pop off and then the gas pours out really fast without "glugging".

Also, I too would like to see every single lighting restriction from the past 15 years or so be completely removed. I know it wouldn't cause mercury fixtures to be made again and all that, but it would at least make it legal to sell reproduction mercury vapor ballasts (something I'd like to do sometime).
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #17 on: June 06, 2019, 08:21:48 PM » Author: Fluorescent05
The less government intervention and regulation, the better..
I totally agree with that statement!!!
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #18 on: June 06, 2019, 09:23:58 PM » Author: CEB1993
This is such encouraging news!  I don't think incandescents can ever have a perfect replacement.  LED's are great for energy savings, automotive applications, and smart controls.  I don't think incandescents will ever fully disappear because of special applications such as appliance lights and heat lamps.  I'm all for what's going on with the repeal of the light bulb rules.  In general, I think the less government regulation, the better.  The regulation of light bulbs is micromanagement in my book, forcing consumers to buy more expensive products and taking away choices. 

LEDs and CFLs are not a perfect solution to environmentally friendly lighting solutions.  The incandescent light bulb is a relatively simple device that is easy to manufacture and does not contain any harmful materials.  CFLs contain mercury and require much more energy to manufacture, so it seems like the environment still takes a hit with them.  I never liked the idea of mercury-filled lights in my house that could break and endanger me or my surroundings.  LEDs are much better than CFLs in terms of light quality and the lack of toxic materials.  However, LEDs are ultimately harming large lighting companies due to their extremely long life ratings.  Consumers aren't buying as many replacement LED lamps and thus lighting companies are losing money.  The "big three" has recently sold off the less lucrative lighting divisions.  GE has sold their lighting division to Tungsram, Sylvania has been partnered with Ledvance, and Philips has changed the name of the lighting division to Signify.  It's turbulent yet exciting times in the lighting industry these days, and I hope manufacturing will begin moving out of China and back to the USA. 

Being from South Carolina, a solid "red" state, I'm sure we will see the benefits of this repeal in a few stores here soon.  I'm excited about the chance to see good old fashioned incandescents showing up again at my usual shopping spots!
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #19 on: June 08, 2019, 02:57:59 AM » Author: tolivac
The actual life of LED lamps is still unknown-haven't been out there long enough to judge.The LED bulbs I have purchased-GE,Sylvania-have been JUNK and some have failed within a few days of installation---One Sylvania bulb made a loud BRRRRR____AAAP!!!BLOP!!then the smoke came out never to light again.Now,some Kichner lamps I bought a few years ago from LOWERS are still working just fine.Lowes no longer sell those bulbs--Whats up here???With the quality of many LED and even CFL lamps out there I would much rather have a Quality US made incandescent bulb anyday-at least you knew how long they would last-were cheap to replace and no hazardous materials in them.Those would light for at least several months before silently going out.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #20 on: June 08, 2019, 10:52:57 AM » Author: Fluorescent05
Does this include the magnetic ballast ban?
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #21 on: June 08, 2019, 09:25:01 PM » Author: FGS
Look, all I know is that the liberal Democrats, is more focused on climate change... And banning lamps, ballasts, and fixtures such as incandescents, HIDs and fluorescents and banning all fossil fuels is not gonna solve for climate change... You cannot stop climate change. And establishing a Green New Deal (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's plan) is also NOT gonna solve for climate change either..... Most of our power is generated by coal, natural gas and fossil fuels. But a small portion of it is solar, wind, and hydroelectric power. And banning fossil fuels is gonna lose TONS of jobs, and factories....

How is banning fossil fuels gonna cause job losses? Do solar, wind, and other green energy sources build, wire, and maintain themselves? Do those sources appear out of thin air without any factories and such? Is the beloved “clean” fossil fuels infinite and will never ever run out for centuries?

Banning them won’t mean job losses. Green energy sources will need to be build, wired up to utilities, and maintained/repaired as needed. For that, they’ll need people. Not to mention old fossil fuel sources needing to be decommissioned, dismantled, and site cleaned up so people can get parks and such in place.

For hardware for green energy sources we’d need factories to build them, hence the need for people. Not to mention transport to ship those parts to where they’re needed. Truckers are needed.

Fossil fuels like coal, oil, and gas are finite and they’ll run out sooner or later. The bigger the green energy source slice of the pie of all energy sources and the smaller the fossil fuel energy sources the better. The time fossil fuel will run out would be pushed up into the future, instead of 2030s, it’s possible it’ll be 2080s if not beyond.

Sun, wind, and so on are nearly infinite. We don’t need to worry about running out of them.

I rather live in a clean earth not a smoggy one. I want to leave this world cleaner than when I was born into. I’m sure many of you want the same. Leaving a clean world for our descendants not a ruined one. ;)

This is not liberal/conservative nor is it political. It’s called being caring for the one and only home Earth.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #22 on: June 08, 2019, 10:17:15 PM » Author: lightinglover8902
How is banning fossil fuels gonna cause job losses? Do solar, wind, and other green energy sources build, wire, and maintain themselves? Do those sources appear out of thin air without any factories and such? Is the beloved “clean” fossil fuels infinite and will never ever run out for centuries?

Banning them won’t mean job losses. Green energy sources will need to be build, wired up to utilities, and maintained/repaired as needed. For that, they’ll need people. Not to mention old fossil fuel sources needing to be decommissioned, dismantled, and site cleaned up so people can get parks and such in place.

For hardware for green energy sources we’d need factories to build them, hence the need for people. Not to mention transport to ship those parts to where they’re needed. Truckers are needed.

Fossil fuels like coal, oil, and gas are finite and they’ll run out sooner or later. The bigger the green energy source slice of the pie of all energy sources and the smaller the fossil fuel energy sources the better. The time fossil fuel will run out would be pushed up into the future, instead of 2030s, it’s possible it’ll be 2080s if not beyond.

Sun, wind, and so on are nearly infinite. We don’t need to worry about running out of them.

I rather live in a clean earth not a smoggy one. I want to leave this world cleaner than when I was born into. I’m sure many of you want the same. Leaving a clean world for our descendants not a ruined one. ;)

This is not liberal/conservative nor is it political. It’s called being caring for the one and only home Earth.

This might sound a bit off topic but..........

The main disadvantages of solar, wind, and hydroelectric power often sometimes "quit working". Sure it will never run out, but will often sometimes stop working. For solar, if its a cloudy day or a stormy day it will work a bit, but not a whole lot IF theres strong sunshine in place. Also another disadvantage is that the solar cells will be worned by the UV rays of the sunlight (unless if its a high performance solar panel). For wind power, the disadvantages is when theres no wind, and it won't move the turbine. However, hydroelectric power is a possibility, because of the "moving" water trough the generators, thus creating electricity...

Sorry if this got off topic......
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 10:19:51 PM by lightinglover8902 » Logged

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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #23 on: June 09, 2019, 06:45:49 AM » Author: FGS
This might sound a bit off topic but..........

The main disadvantages of solar, wind, and hydroelectric power often sometimes "quit working". Sure it will never run out, but will often sometimes stop working. For solar, if its a cloudy day or a stormy day it will work a bit, but not a whole lot IF theres strong sunshine in place. Also another disadvantage is that the solar cells will be worned by the UV rays of the sunlight (unless if its a high performance solar panel). For wind power, the disadvantages is when theres no wind, and it won't move the turbine. However, hydroelectric power is a possibility, because of the "moving" water trough the generators, thus creating electricity...

Sorry if this got off topic......

There are energy storage methods for times they’re not generated like nights and calm days. Battery banks for one. I think Tesla (the car brand) has one in California somewhere. I dunno if the tech is in use or it’s still in experiment stages, giant flywheels, molten salts, compressed air into the ground, and so on. Some of the ideas might seems too crazy right now but they have said the same for electric lighting back in 1800s. Ditto for powered flights.

You don’t put solar panels and wind turbines in one spot. You spread them out all over the country. All those unused roofs of houses, warehouses, and so on. Wind turbines mebbe they can be placed on the medians of major highways or whatever.

Panels being degraded by the sun? It’s where maintenance/repair come into play. Parts wear down. That’s way of life. More jobs for people anyway to keep making/recycling panels. No different from replacing furnace linings for fossil fuel power sources. Except mebbe cleaner as you’re outside in fresh air and not inside some hot furnace messing with parts (bricks mebbe for liners) full of carcinogenic chemicals in the air.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #24 on: June 09, 2019, 03:04:15 PM » Author: Patrick
I'm interested in finding out what we are likely to expect in 2020.  The article indicates this would be a rollback of "Obama-era standards."  That's important in that the general service lamp standards in effect today are "Bush-era."  Although Congress has relaxed enforcement of the "Bush-era" rules in the past, that action was largely symbolic and did not change the law.  There are still two provisions that are set to take effect on January 1, 2020.  One is the 45 lm/w requirement for all General Service Lamps.  There was some controversy regarding this provision in the past.  Apparently the Department of Energy allowed this 45 lm/w "backstop" requirement to be triggered as a result of their inaction.  My understanding was that there was still some question regarding the enforcement of this backstop requirement alone should the DOE not pass a specific rule in response.  NEMA as well as manufacturers preferred lamp-specific standards to be set rather than an across the board rather than a 45 lm/w for all lamps classified as GSLs.  Another key matter that the article touched on was the expansion of the definition of a GSL, which took place at the end of Obama's second term.  This would extend it to include 3-Way, rough service/vibration resistant, reflector lamps, and certain decorative shapes.  If included, these would also be subject to the 45 lm/w requirement, or whatever standards are enacted.

In short, if all of the pending standards are reverted, we will continue to be subject to the rules in place today in 2020 and beyond.  If all of the pending standards go into effect, the majority of the most common incandescent and halogen lamps still available will go by the wayside, though some specialty lamps such as appliance lamps, heat lamps, colored lamps, very low/high wattage lamps should remain.  It sounds like the matter of the Obama expansion is still unsettled.  At one time there was uncertainly over the backstop as well as the January 1, 2020 date, and I don't know how settled either of those are at this point.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #25 on: June 09, 2019, 11:20:44 PM » Author: ace100w120v
They are actually going to reverse this? I'm a little surprised.  I'm not against it, but I think most likely LED, etc is here to stay.  Look at how CFLs were rendered obsolete on their own.  With that said, not much beats the 90 CRI light of incandescent.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #26 on: June 20, 2019, 06:20:20 AM » Author: Silverliner
Obama era light bulb rules actually refer to types of bulbs such as reflector, decorative, 3 way etc which was passed on Obama's last day in office. The general service incandescent law was passed by Bush.


I'm interested in finding out what we are likely to expect in 2020.  The article indicates this would be a rollback of "Obama-era standards."  That's important in that the general service lamp standards in effect today are "Bush-era."  Although Congress has relaxed enforcement of the "Bush-era" rules in the past, that action was largely symbolic and did not change the law.  There are still two provisions that are set to take effect on January 1, 2020.  One is the 45 lm/w requirement for all General Service Lamps.  There was some controversy regarding this provision in the past.  Apparently the Department of Energy allowed this 45 lm/w "backstop" requirement to be triggered as a result of their inaction.  My understanding was that there was still some question regarding the enforcement of this backstop requirement alone should the DOE not pass a specific rule in response.  NEMA as well as manufacturers preferred lamp-specific standards to be set rather than an across the board rather than a 45 lm/w for all lamps classified as GSLs.  Another key matter that the article touched on was the expansion of the definition of a GSL, which took place at the end of Obama's second term.  This would extend it to include 3-Way, rough service/vibration resistant, reflector lamps, and certain decorative shapes.  If included, these would also be subject to the 45 lm/w requirement, or whatever standards are enacted.

In short, if all of the pending standards are reverted, we will continue to be subject to the rules in place today in 2020 and beyond.  If all of the pending standards go into effect, the majority of the most common incandescent and halogen lamps still available will go by the wayside, though some specialty lamps such as appliance lamps, heat lamps, colored lamps, very low/high wattage lamps should remain.  It sounds like the matter of the Obama expansion is still unsettled.  At one time there was uncertainly over the backstop as well as the January 1, 2020 date, and I don't know how settled either of those are at this point.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #27 on: June 20, 2019, 06:21:28 AM » Author: Silverliner
Wasn't Centerpoint Energy once known as Houston Lighting and Power? I think TL&P and other utilities mentioned are now in Oncor Energy's area.

Predecessors of CenterPoint Energy. Never mind.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #28 on: August 25, 2019, 05:36:56 AM » Author: Silverliner
Oncor Energy is now largely owned by a California company called Sempra Energy. They operate San Diego Gas & Electric and Southern California Gas.

They have been merged, bought out, bought out again, merged, and even had foreign investors from GB. I miss the olds days of DP&L, TP&L, and Texas Electric Service with those services trucks that had the roll out wood varnished ladders.
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Re: States fight Trump rollback of Obama lightbulb rules « Reply #29 on: August 25, 2019, 11:28:53 AM » Author: Ash
Re FGS : Clean Energy

I do see one thing rises concern in this, and its nothing to do with the clean energy itself. Most recent technologies related to such energies seem to be produced exclusively in China. This includes the higher end solar panels, semiconductor devices needed to build inverters (which are required for virtually every clean energy source, since the output varies and must be stabilized), lithium cells (energy storage) etc. Maybe there is a US based factory as well, but generally even if they exist, they often technologically lag behind their Chinese fellows at the moment

This is in contrast with fossil fuels, where all machinery required to refine and use it, are readily available to produce in the US

Even the fuel itself is present in the US. Coal is mined in the US for use in the US and export. Oil is present in the US too, although it is not pumped actively and instead US like all the rest of the world relies on Saudi and other oil from that region

So, this creates conditions where clean energy stands in conflict with US's wishes for econimical independence (at least in regards to the coal, with the oil its much more messy)

The US, Europe, and even us in the Middle East absolutely do need economical independence from China ASAP - We all collectively have given them way too much power over ourseves all this time. This must be addressed right there along with the technological matters
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