Author Topic: Temporary lightsource during warm up and resrike.  (Read 2407 times)
HomeBrewLamps
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Temporary lightsource during warm up and resrike. « on: September 27, 2019, 11:53:09 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
I know of the simple circuit involving a relay with its electromagnet connected in series with the lamp. However the disadvantage of this is that it doesn't function while the lamp is warming up. Only while it's completely off.

I'd like to find a device to make a halogen lamp stay on until the HID lamp is fully warmed up. I assume it'd need to be a timer of some sort?

My plan is to mount a pair of 150 watt linear halogen lamps on either side of a 70 watt PSMH inside a bucket light so the light is distributed somewhat evenly during a hot restrike or warm up event and both 150 watt halogens will be connected in parallel to eachother.

300 watts of halogen light is about equal to 70 watts of metal halide light so it would make the fixture effectively instant on or at least give the illusion of such.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 11:55:33 PM by HomeBrewLamps » Logged

~Owen

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Ash
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Re: Temporary lightsource during warm up and resrike. « Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 05:02:56 AM » Author: Ash
Normal relays/contactors are made to draw as little current as possible, so their coil have high impedance. Unless you actually find a current relay or perhaps rewind one, anything rated for connection to a voltage source (even 12V) have too high impedance for going in series with the lamp

You might look into connecting the relay coil in parallel with the ballast for a choke ballast (may or may not be applicable with autotransformer, depending on which taps are available from outside). Only applicable in circuits with superimposed ignitors or Probe Start. It may add some failure modes to your system tho :

1. AC relays draw higher current momentarily, from the moment when the coil is energized to the moment when the core is pulled in and contacts are closed. (The relay is effectively a choke with big air gap before the core pulls in, and close to zero air gap once it does). The lamp may or may not like this very short time overcurrent. (I assume that once the contactor pulled in, the curret will be low enough to fall within the lamp spec tolerances)

2. If the relay gets mechanically stuck in the "not pulled in" position, it will pass the higher current continuously - Which will lead to its coil burning up. Once the coil shorts, the lamp will likely be destroyed as well. A relay may get into this position if it fails mechanically for whatever reason, or if you supply it's coil with voltage that is not sufficient to pull in - The greatest danger i guess is at voltages around half of the relay's rated voltage

There are current relays that directly sense current, this would be the best solution for current sensing instead of all of the above

The relay with NC contact + staircase lighting timer cover all what you ask for

Or build your own electronic control with a means for current sensing (transformer, resistor, etc), sense amplifier, the logic, and output control with a triac or relay



Alternatively you might build a system that works on time alone, without knowing the real state of the MH lamp : Power on the Halogen for a set time after each power on, reset timer at power off. This is pretty much what a compressor protection module does, except you need the NC contact. If its not provided, add a second relay to it to invert the output

Some compressor protection modules are smarter than that - they dont have the delay at first power on, only at "hot restrike". This makes sense for the lamp use as well, since at first power on the lamp astrikes right away, and at second powe on you have to wait before it restrikes. If you want to have some time delay into the lamp warm up, either get a "stupid" module (but it will power the lamp unneccessary long at first power on), or a "smart" one only for the hot restrike delay + staircase timer for the additional constant time delay
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sol
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Re: Temporary lightsource during warm up and resrike. « Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 08:00:06 AM » Author: sol
There are specialty relays made just for this purpose. Some are instant off (incandescent turns off the instant HID strikes) and others have a time delay typically of 1-2 minutes. They shut off the incandescent lamp when the HID has reached a high enough level of illumination to render the standby lamp unnecessary. The standby lamp typically extinguishes late in the "clear mercury" phase of a MH warmup. Colour rendition has not been achieved yet however there is plenty of light to see around and not stumble on things you couldn't see because of the darkness.

The devices are known as HID standby modules or HID standby relays.
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yuandrew
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Re: Temporary lightsource during warm up and resrike. « Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 01:33:32 AM » Author: yuandrew
Quartz restrike is what I've heard them being called in product literature
(the aux/standby light source typically being a quartz-halogen lamp)

Look for a Thomas Research ESP-125-T; it should do what you described
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HomeBrewLamps
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SodiumVapor 105843202020668111118 UCpGClK_9OH8N4QkD1fp-jNw majorpayne1226 187567902@N04/
Re: Temporary lightsource during warm up and resrike. « Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 07:34:03 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
Quartz restrike is what I've heard them being called in product literature
(the aux/standby light source typically being a quartz-halogen lamp)

Look for a Thomas Research ESP-125-T; it should do what you described

I ordered a pair of the modules you speak of! Thankyou for pointing me in the right direction!

Can't wait to get this system up and running.
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