Author Topic: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues  (Read 1750 times)
flyoffacliff
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Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « on: August 12, 2020, 10:03:04 PM » Author: flyoffacliff
I typed up this post the other day, but my PC rebooted so now I have to start over (thanks antiquated forum system).
Anyway, I recently moved to a new area and there is this nice park nearby. It was built in 2011/2012 and has hundreds of landscape lights, as well path/step lights. I assumed they were 70w MH, but turns out they are actually 18w CFLs. I did some research on those plug in g24d-2 lamps, which use a magnetic ballet. A bit surprised it wasn’t an electric ballast based on the installation year.

Unfortunately, only about 10-20% of the fixtures are still functional. Same are tagged with black electrical tape, presumably to indicate a needed ballast replacement. The park is maintained by a volunteer group, and I contacted them offering to volunteer to repair the lights, but sadly never heard back. I was looking forward to it. ☹

The lights are 277VAC, and made by BEGA lighting. I looked up their current catalogue, and same/similar versions of the different fixture designs are still made, but in LED only versions. I put some thought into retrofitting the existing fixtures. I don’t think drop-in retrofit lamps would be good, because we are still relying on the existing/failing ballasts. I don’t think ballast bypass would be safe, because then there is 277VAC exposed at the lamp socket if the outer glass of the fixture gets broken (which has already happened to a few), exposing line voltage to weather and people in the park. Line voltage should remain contained to the ballast compartment.

I was tracking to find an LED waffle lamp that could be mounted flat in place of the existing lamp socket, with an external 277VAC input driver for the ballast compartment, but my search came up short. Everything was far too powerful. I attached a few pictures, but they are not good quality.
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flyoffacliff
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #1 on: August 17, 2020, 02:38:13 PM » Author: flyoffacliff
Found these in another nearby park. Apparently the fixtures and conduit were installed when the park was built in 2009, but they never actually pulled wire through the conduit and assembled the fixtures to make them functional for some reason. There should be a tray containing a MH lamp and reflector the plugs into the plug visible in the picture at the back of the enclosure. Most of them are filled with weeds and trash at this point :(
It's the Cooper Lighting Rio 1237
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Ash
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #2 on: August 17, 2020, 04:17:51 PM » Author: Ash
The PL lights would work just fine if you replace the failed ballasts with 230V 50Hz ones, which are easy to buy from Europe. (The 277V compensates nearly spot on for the frequency difference). If the original ballasts used 4 pin lamp connection, convert the circuit to Preheat with FS-4 starter

The HID lights - I assume you have several options with "native" US HID gear. But if not, substitutes for that can be found as well
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flyoffacliff
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #3 on: August 19, 2020, 12:27:50 AM » Author: flyoffacliff
The PL lights would work just fine if you replace the failed ballasts with 230V 50Hz ones, which are easy to buy from Europe. (The 277V compensates nearly spot on for the frequency difference). If the original ballasts used 4 pin lamp connection, convert the circuit to Preheat with FS-4 starter

The HID lights - I assume you have several options with "native" US HID gear. But if not, substitutes for that can be found as well


That's very interesting and clever about the voltage difference! Thanks for sharing. Although I don't think that will work here since the city is inspecting it. They technically won't even let me touch the ballast since I don't have an electrical contractor license. :(

Original lamps were 2 pin. I think magnetic used 2 pins and electric uses 4 pins, although I'm not sure why.
I thought some magnetic ballast with good power factor or something were not banned. I can't imagine there being a lighting technology used in new installations only a few years old now banned with no retrofit option besides LED. But it took me 30 minutes of searching to find the correct ballast available, and it was priced at like $70! Must be a supply-demand thing.

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flyoffacliff
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #4 on: August 19, 2020, 12:29:29 AM » Author: flyoffacliff
Also, out of curiosity, has anyone ever replaced one of these fixtures embedded in existing concrete? I don't know how you would do it
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Ash
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #5 on: August 19, 2020, 03:11:30 PM » Author: Ash
In 2 pin lamp the starter is built into the lamp base. In 11W PL-S, 13W PL-C G24d-1/q-1 (91V 165mA), 18W and 26W, The starter is FS-4 equivalent. In 5/7/9W and 13W PL-S GX23, the starter is FS-2 equivalent

It is far from reasonable, but it is in fact what the "green" regulation is all about...

All choke ballasts have low power factor on their own, normally between 0.3...0.5. A capacitor is connected in the luminaire directly on the AC input to provide power factor correction


The luminaires are normally installed in a plastic box which is embedded in the concrete. Sometimes they are bolted to it, sometimes just loosely inserted till it is flush with the box

There may be slack of cable under the luminaire which will let you lift it from the box, or may not be in which case you'll have to free it from the connection box into which it pulls (typically up to a few feet away). The cable is supposed to be sealed to the luminaire

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Bulbman256
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #6 on: August 19, 2020, 03:47:34 PM » Author: Bulbman256
The PL lights would work just fine if you replace the failed ballasts with 230V 50Hz ones, which are easy to buy from Europe. (The 277V compensates nearly spot on for the frequency difference). If the original ballasts used 4 pin lamp connection, convert the circuit to Preheat with FS-4 starter

The HID lights - I assume you have several options with "native" US HID gear. But if not, substitutes for that can be found as well

Ash they also made here in the us 277v pl ballasts for use in places with only a 277/480 supply.
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #7 on: August 20, 2020, 03:16:02 PM » Author: Ash
Are those available to buy ?
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Bulbman256
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #8 on: August 22, 2020, 08:01:59 PM » Author: Bulbman256
Are those available to buy ?


I think so, probably only available from an electrical supply house.
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #9 on: August 25, 2020, 11:33:45 AM » Author: flyoffacliff
In 2 pin lamp the starter is built into the lamp base. In 11W PL-S, 13W PL-C G24d-1/q-1 (91V 165mA), 18W and 26W, The starter is FS-4 equivalent. In 5/7/9W and 13W PL-S GX23, the starter is FS-2 equivalent

It is far from reasonable, but it is in fact what the "green" regulation is all about...

All choke ballasts have low power factor on their own, normally between 0.3...0.5. A capacitor is connected in the luminaire directly on the AC input to provide power factor correction


The luminaires are normally installed in a plastic box which is embedded in the concrete. Sometimes they are bolted to it, sometimes just loosely inserted till it is flush with the box

There may be slack of cable under the luminaire which will let you lift it from the box, or may not be in which case you'll have to free it from the connection box into which it pulls (typically up to a few feet away). The cable is supposed to be sealed to the luminaire




PL-S, PL-C, FS-4, FS-2, choke ballast. I don't know what any of this means? Thank you, but this site kind of overwhelms me sometimes and it's hard to find answers.
AFAIK, in G24d-1, the G24 is the lamp style, the D or Q means magnetic or electric ballast, and the "1" means the notch configuration for different wattages.
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Ash
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Re: Moved Near New Park With Lighting Issues « Reply #10 on: August 27, 2020, 02:57:23 PM » Author: Ash
PL-S :
PL lamp with thin 1U shaped tube. Comes in 5W (rare), 7, 9, 11W (Europe), 13W (US)

Base :
G23 (2 pin all except 13W)
GX23 (2 pin 13W)
2G7 (4 pin)

Names : PL-S (Philips), Dulux S (Osram), Lynx (Sylvania), TC (Vossloh Schwabe), TT (Lithonia)



PL-C :
PL lamp with thin 2U shaped tube. Comes in 10, 13, 18, 26W

Base :
G24d-1 (2pin 10/13W) / q-1 (4pin)
G24d-2 (2pin 18W) / q-2 (4pin)
G24d-3 (2pin 26W) / q-3 (4pin)

Names : PL-C (Philips), Dulux D (Osram), Lynx D (Sylvania), TC-D (Vossloh Schwabe), DTT (Lithonia)

In all PL lamps, if a 2 pin version exists (for magnetic gear), then the 4 pin version can also be used on the same gear, you just have to add the starter externally by connecting it to the other 2 pins



FS-4 : Starter for 40W 4' tube in Preheat luminaire
Names : FS-4/FS-U (common US names), S10 (Philips), st111 (Osram)

FS-2 : Starter for 20W 2' tube in Preheat luminaire
Names : FS-2 (common US name), S2 (Philips), st151 (Osram)
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