Author Topic: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast.  (Read 2359 times)
don93s
Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « on: March 24, 2013, 09:17:28 PM » Author: don93s
Occasionally I come across someone asking about putting those 90w T17's on a rapid-start circuit. A few years ago, I even did some experiments with F96/HO and VHO ballasts. I had determined they weren't compatable because the T17 lamp voltage is too low (about 60v if I recall). Recently, I acquired some more VHO ballasts and T17 lamps...this time I tried a GE F48T12/VHO ballast. The lamp was still overdriven because the T17 still has a lower operating voltage than a F48 VHO but I then realized there was an even BIGGER problem....

Ok, initially, when I did the experiment,  the ballasts were 525v OCV so lamps started quickly. When I tried using the GE ballast....which despite the label, has ONLY 280 OCV. the lamps glowed dim with bluish ends. I then removed a wire from each end of one lamp and manually PREHEATD it and presto....they both came on! So, I realized the filaments have high resistance. I did measurements and sure enough, the 4v filament current was too low (wrote it down and lost it). This is the same behavior as, say, a 15 or 20w lamp on a regular 30 or 40w RS ballast. That's why PH exclusive lamps, such as 14-20w require about 9v filament current, aka trigger-start.

From all of this, I would have to say that in order to run a T17 "Rapid Start", they will have to be in a "Trigger Start" situation. Naturally, my first thought, since the T17's have similar voltage to regular 20w lamps is to get about 5 or 6 20w trigger start ballasts and carefully connect them in parallel. That means the wire pairs will have to be right polarity or the filament voltages will become shorted.

In the future, I may try something like this.
Logged
funkybulb
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 11:38:38 PM » Author: funkybulb
 If that lamp have such low arc voltage about 60 volt you need about 1500 mA to light it.
  so I would try light it on 100 watt 55 volt HPS ballast with no ignitor and use them on preheat configuration
  that should be close to the voltage spec of your lamp.
Logged

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

HomeBrewLamps
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


SodiumVapor 105843202020668111118 UCpGClK_9OH8N4QkD1fp-jNw majorpayne1226 187567902@N04/
Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #2 on: February 23, 2019, 01:49:20 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
If that lamp have such low arc voltage about 60 volt you need about 1500 mA to light it.
  so I would try light it on 100 watt 55 volt HPS ballast with no ignitor and use them on preheat configuration
  that should be close to the voltage spec of your lamp.
How would I wire it in a preheat configuration? I have plenty of 100W HPS ballasts laying around..
Logged

~Owen

:colorbulb: Scavenger, Urban Explorer, Lighting Enthusiast and Creator of homebrewlamps 8) :colorbulb:

Ash
Member
*****
Offline

View Posts
View Gallery


Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #3 on: February 23, 2019, 03:49:09 AM » Author: Ash
Phase to Ballast's Phase terminal

Ballast's Lamp terminal to one Lamp pin

Lamp pin on the other end of the lamp to Neutral

Tap on the ballast (for the ignitor) do not connect, isolate it

Remaining 2 lamp pins (one pin from each end of the lamp) to a switch. To start, connect power, then flip the switch ON for a few seconds and then OFF



Also, for 60V 1500mA lamp you can try 4 F20T12 chokes in parallel (but check the current, if they underdrive the F20T12 they will underdrive the F90 as well, so maybe you'll need to add a 5th choke)
Logged
HomeBrewLamps
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


SodiumVapor 105843202020668111118 UCpGClK_9OH8N4QkD1fp-jNw majorpayne1226 187567902@N04/
Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #4 on: February 23, 2019, 07:15:30 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
So I tried it, the preheating works but the ballast doesn't seem to provide enough current to strike the arc..

Would putting two HPS chokes in parallel be a bad idea?


Would resistive ballasting be an option? If so how many watts of bulbs would I need? I have no clue how to calculate that..
Logged

~Owen

:colorbulb: Scavenger, Urban Explorer, Lighting Enthusiast and Creator of homebrewlamps 8) :colorbulb:

Ash
Member
*****
Offline

View Posts
View Gallery


Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #5 on: February 24, 2019, 07:03:59 AM » Author: Ash
The ballast gotta be about right in current. It is not your problem. Maybe the impulse voltage is too low, but those T17's were made to be started with 4 pin starers, which starting pulse is as low and inconsistent as it gets, so that would be a non issue. Is there something in your circuit that we dont know about ? - Such as capacitor connected to the ballast ?

Don't try with 2 chokes in parallel, as this will also double the preheat current, and if you do manage to start the lamp, it will get double the arc current
Logged
funkybulb
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #6 on: February 24, 2019, 08:58:17 AM » Author: funkybulb
 These lamps are pain to start.  try holding button
 down few seconds then push it in  and out to create
pulsing voltage spike from inductive kick from the ballast
 
even 4 x 20 watt choke will work.  problem was
starting curent way too high that you need had some
 more resistance across the starter switch.  or you will blow cahode. 

  you may have boost the OCV up a bit
by taking a 120 to 12 volt transformer
and boost the voltage up a bit.  it cause
lamp is being so long as that longest  and
lowest arc voltage preheat tube  the US.
i am afraid incandescent wont work
unless you have 240 volt ocv, as  it lacks
inductive kicks for 120 volt ocv.

Logged

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!


Worldwide HIDCollectorUSA
Re: F90T17's won't work on ANY HO/VHO ballast. « Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 01:43:15 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
A US 70w S62 55v HPS ballast without the ignitor might actually be a close match since US 70w S62 HPS lamps run at 52v 1.4a.
Logged

Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

Print 
© 2005-2024 Lighting-Gallery.net | SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies