My cousin, who was an honor student in high school and is in college, and even had an internship with GE, thought fluorescent tubes didn't have Mercury. It wasn't one of the cold cathode ones, it was a standard sylvania crocktron.

"WARNING: energy-saving bulbs contain mercury
In addition to the danger of radiation of energy-saving bulbs - now warns US Environmental Protection Agency that liquid mercury which can cause respiratory problems. Recommendations: When one bulb breaks, has quickly leave the room for at least 15 minutes"

"Energy saving bulbs contain mercury". As if everyone doesn't know that.
Radiation? CFL's arent nuclear powered.
Mercury can't cause respiratory problems. It can cause health issues (if one to 5 CFLs break, you should just be worried about the glass, not the mercury. Anything higher than that, you should air out the room for at least 15 minutes, ideally with a fan.), but respiratory problems would be from smoke or dust, not liquid mercury. Leaving the room and not doing anything isn't going to solve the problem. The mercury won't go anywhere.

Most Israelis people thinks that fluorescents contains neon and don't know that they contains mercury. These lamps called neon here in Israel.

1. https://translate.google.co.il/translate?sl=iw&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=iw&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globes.co.il%2Fnews%2Farticle.aspx%3Fdid%3D1000512269&edit-text=&act=url

http://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=1000512269

2. https://translate.google.co.il/translate?sl=iw&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=iw&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mynet.co.il%2Farticles%2F0%2C7340%2CL-4611341%2C00.html&edit-text=&act=url

http://www.mynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4611341,00.html

Not an article but really, really, wrong.

Apparantly, 35 watts of LED is equal to 320 watts of PSMH. But, compare the lumens.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/171490/LITH-0075.html

Now for a real 320w lamp:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/100591/MHS-03201578.html

The wallpack is rated at 2100 lumens, while the 320w lamp is rated over 10 times that much, at 32000 lumens. Someone sure would be disappointed to find how dim their area would be after replacing the 320w fixtures. What a ripoff.

See it all the time everywhere. But i see that the common lie norm is at about 2x for Fluorescent and 4x for HID. In your example it is not 10, its a big 15x !!!

See it all the time everywhere. But i see that the common lie norm is at about 2x for Fluorescent and 4x for HID. In your example it is not 10, its a big 15x !!!

I wonder if maybe they compared it to a dimmed out lamp or a lamp at startup. I wouldn't be suprised if that is the case. 
Also, I have seen "400w equal" LED wallpacks that don't say which source they are equal to, rated at around 40 watts. What do ya wanna bet it is equal to a 400w incandescent or extremely dimmed out 400w MV? 

The tricks i seen so far include :

Compare to dimmed or starting lamp as you mentioned

Compare glare from the lantern, not effect on the Earth

Half the Lumens of the FL/HID lamp right away, as the LED lights only down (assume there is no reflected light from the back of the FL/HID lantern or reflectors)

Use unrealistic Lm/W figures for both FL/HID and LED : FL/HID use Lm/W data of obsolete or very inefficient lamp types (ie high CRI), LED use Lm/W data of exceptional samples and not the actual same LEDs that are used

Take the figures that compare to incandescets (the familiar ~5x energy saving from CFLs) and claim it against FL/HID assuming that nobody would notice

Tell lies and blame on typos. But then keep calculating energy savings and on from the lies. Stuff like 6 converted to 9 for example

And then there are the simple claims that are not based on anything in particular. Thats what you mostly find in the "4x" and higher

Ash: From where you know all that?

For the most part - walking to wholesalers, pretending to be average joe, hearing the BS and making my conclusions, or reading packages of LED products

The comparation of LED to warming-up MH i seen in some US LED company's video in Youtube. In the same video they compared LED to warming-up Induction lamp too (whiloe it is not yet at full output)

The comparation of LED to warming-up MH i seen in some US LED company's video in Youtube. In the same video they compared LED to warming-up Induction lamp too (whiloe it is not yet at full output)

It is really sad that they can get away with that. I have seen videos like that before, and I dislike them since they are clearly lying.

Quote from: Ash on September 20, 2015, 07:10:33 AM

The comparation of LED to warming-up MH i seen in some US LED company's video in Youtube. In the same video they compared LED to warming-up Induction lamp too (whiloe it is not yet at full output)

It is really sad that they can get away with that. I have seen videos like that before, and I dislike them since they are clearly lying.

I dunno whether they have no clue about the warm up periods of HID lights or they know of it and are acting like they dunno about it. Hard to tell which is which.

One way to know is to email them letting them know about it. "Wait 15 minutes before you compare. Yada yada yada..." How they respond might clue you in what's in their minds. (That is if their email systems doesn't classify your email as spam or something and it gets buried never to be seen.)

Good LEDs can be made as bright as the HID versions if well designed so no need for that crap "Just started HID vs instant dim led" comparison vids/pics. Those annoys me to no ends. I can see it's a HPS bulb but it's still in its xenon or mercury stage or incandescent electrodes as with MHs.

Quote from: Zarlog on September 20, 2015, 10:56:10 AM

Quote from: Ash on September 20, 2015, 07:10:33 AM

The comparation of LED to warming-up MH i seen in some US LED company's video in Youtube. In the same video they compared LED to warming-up Induction lamp too (whiloe it is not yet at full output)

It is really sad that they can get away with that. I have seen videos like that before, and I dislike them since they are clearly lying.

I dunno whether they have no clue about the warm up periods of HID lights or they know of it and are acting like they dunno about it. Hard to tell which is which.

One way to know is to email them letting them know about it. "Wait 15 minutes before you compare. Yada yada yada..." How they respond might clue you in what's in their minds. (That is if their email systems doesn't classify your email as spam or something and it gets buried never to be seen.)

Good LEDs can be made as bright as the HID versions if well designed so no need for that crap "Just started HID vs instant dim led" comparison vids/pics. Those annoys me to no ends. I can see it's a HPS bulb but it's still in its xenon or mercury stage or incandescent electrodes as with MHs.

You are right, LEDs can be made just as bright as HIDs. However, cramming 320w of LED into a wallpack wouldn't work, so it is better to leave the higher wattages to PSMH. For example, I doubt LED will ever replace MH in ballfield lighting. To get over 1,000 watts of LED, a phase- change refridgeration system would have to be involved. And think of how much more it would cost to make LED floods with phase-change cooling systems, and that a single lightning strike could take out millions of dollars worth in LED floodlights. So at least you can be assured that LEDs will never take over huge ballfields.

In this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1eeNMJz5vQ, they think that 50w of LED is equal to 150w of HPS. 50w LED would be equal to 39w CMH, not 150w HPS. They have been confronted in the comments about this, and look what they wrote:
"You are talking without knowledge. With LED i can get any watt i want. 30w of LED is equal to 90w of HPS. LED is the best efficiency for light. Life time, Consumption, Illumination, all of them are better."
Sorry, but I think you are the one talking without knowledge. LEDs become uselessly dim in a short time, shorter that it takes an HPS lamp to go EOL.
I am so tired of everyone (besides lighting enthusiasts of course) saying that "LED IS GOOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS EVUL!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I wonder what the world will be like in 15 years with nothing but LED. Anyone have any theories?

I seen ballfield LED lights... Think the same general shape as the normal HID light, but with the reflector being smaller, and wher the ballast box would normally be. there is just a huge heatsink (though not as huge as i'd like to see for ~500W of LED). They are pushed there as well as everywhere else



LED can be bright. But the spectral content problem is here to stay, which renders it bad choice whether at 1000W, 30W or 5W as long as it is lighting the place for people and not for CCTV cameras

Actually many LEDs allready use Phase Change cooling - In the form of heatpipes carrying the heat from the chip to the heatsink (the heatsinks being too large to effectively get the heat from the chip to the far end by heat conduction of metal alone). Compressor powered Phase Change cooling would only be required if you are trying to save on a properly sized heatsink



This video is actually a perfect example of what i see going on about LEDs all the time. This one literally is - The uploader appears to be from my country....

Now, this "LED IS GOOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE" thing not only finds its way into those vides, but into actual decision making : "we want to save power, improve lighting levels, and improve reliability therefore OBVIOUSLY the route is LED, because everyone says those are the things LED is good at" - Nevermind that you didnt replace lamps for the last 10 years in your existing HPS instalation, or clean the lantern lenses ever since thy were installed in the 80s.....

After the conversion to LED, comes out that it does not save the energy expected, but gives out a fraction of the light output of the HPS, even when compared to the cyclodrome that was going on there in the last few years

In this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1eeNMJz5vQ, they think that 50w of LED is equal to 150w of HPS. 50w LED would be equal to 39w CMH, not 150w HPS. They have been confronted in the comments about this, and look what they wrote:
"You are talking without knowledge. With LED i can get any watt i want. 30w of LED is equal to 90w of HPS. LED is the best efficiency for light. Life time, Consumption, Illumination, all of them are better."
Sorry, but I think you are the one talking without knowledge. LEDs become uselessly dim in a short time, shorter that it takes an HPS lamp to go EOL.
I am so tired of everyone (besides lighting enthusiasts of course) saying that "LED IS GOOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS EVUL!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I wonder what the world will be like in 15 years with nothing but LED. Anyone have any theories?

I've seen this video. Notice that he waits until the HPS lantern reaches full output, but during run-up, it indeed state that the LED is bright and the HPS is yellow, despite I can see that the HPS saturates the camera stronger than of the LED, meaning that the HPS have more lumens than the LED.