Author Topic: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War.  (Read 2407 times)
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USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « on: June 04, 2019, 05:55:01 PM » Author: FGS
Iím sure most of you have heard or seen news of Trump Regime in a trade war with the Chinese government recently. Tariffs on products left and right with both countries doing it. Stuff will inevitably be more costlier than usual as itís us consumers that end up paying for it not the companies that went offshore and such.

What Iím wondering about is rare earth elements for many fluorescent bulbs. Iím sure most of you knows the largest concentration of rare earth ores is in China. Basically Texas or the Middle East of rare earth ores instead of oil. For now China havenít used its trump card and stopped exports of the elements to the West or put hefty tariffs on them. Should I expect fluorescent tubes to be much more expensive once China uses that card and start hoarding tubes whilst theyíre cheap right now?

I know this has politics written all over it but since itís involving lighting stuff the rules say itís fine.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 06:50:56 PM » Author: FGS
Better than the Bush/Obama regimes that banned mercury vapor and the silly PC nincompoops that banned creosote poles but ok'd copper arsenic poles that last half as long.

Last I checked the MV ban happened under Bush not Obama. Google isnít much help on the Creosote. Most are articles from the 80s and last I checked the Obama era went from 2008 to 2016. Nowhere he was president in the 80s. The 80s was Reaganís turn to be president.

Beside this thread isnít talking about bans but about the trade war between Trump Regime and the Chinese government making fluorescent lighting more expensive. Weíd still be able to buy tubes and such. But not for $10 but for $20 or more for a good set of modern tubes.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 07:24:09 PM » Author: Patrick
I don't know about this time, but it has affected lighting before.  The 700 series T8 lamps remained on the market two years longer than they otherwise would have, due to rare earth prices, largely a consequence of China's export restrictions.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 08:33:04 AM » Author: Roi_hartmann
Are these rare earth metals material that you need in led lighting?
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 08:35:47 AM » Author: FGS
Are these rare earth metals material that you need in led lighting?

And fluorescent bulbs. Not to mention countless smartphones and computers.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 08:52:58 AM » Author: FGS
I don't know about this time, but it has affected lighting before.  The 700 series T8 lamps remained on the market two years longer than they otherwise would have, due to rare earth prices, largely a consequence of China's export restrictions.

I thought it was more or less along the line of the 700s being the cheaper ďBasicĒ and the 800 and above were the ďPremiumĒ of T8s. People being cheap therefore the 700s were more common so manufacturers kept it going.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 03:29:08 PM » Author: FGS
Oh yea, the 327 billion trade deficit that we have with Communist China. I gotcha...

Iím not sure how exactly the trades we do with other countries work. I figure it as hiring a general contractor to build a house for $327,000.00 and the guy/company didnít pay for that house once itís built ending up in a $327,000.00 deficit. If thatís the case then itís on the companies that went offshore and hired Chinese factories that are responsible not the Chinese nor the American government (even Trumpís). Unless itís more than that.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 03:44:06 PM » Author: FGS
It's been going on and getting worse for the last two decades. It needs to stop and if we must place taroff's on imports such as our forefather's did then so be it. Yes, it is the greed companies looking for the cheap slave wage labor and they need to be reigned in. If we ever did get in a war with one of the m and THEM they cut us off on items such as the rare earth minerals, we would be up the creek without a paddle. We need to be self sufficient again...IMO

They need us like we need them. I mean if they cut us off. How are they gonna pay the workers for those factories? I mean if workers arenít getting paid theyíre not putting food on the table and things will get ugly. Far East version of the Arab Spring and the Chinese government doesnít want that.

Kind of like the mutually assured destruction we had with the USSR in the Cold War. We want cheap stuff from China so we donít pick a fight with China. They want to keep the workers paid and happy and not revolting against their government so they donít want to pick a fight with us. Trump is a wild card so no one knows exactly whatís gonna happen about it. Will we keep at peace relying on each other as usual or will we start getting ugly and cut each other off making stuff more expensive for everyone involved?
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 07:17:00 PM » Author: FGS
We did fine without them before. I would really like our factories in the small towns to return as well as our manufacturing base where people could get work and towns could get their tax base. I remember three full pages of employment ads in every Sunday paper. Some things evolve for the best but this is not one of them. China is NOT our friend and neither is Russia.  IMO

We didnít have much variety of stuff back then. I mean cell phones and so on didnít exist at the time we decided to open up with China.

What makes you think factories coming back here would bring jobs back? If anything theyíll go full automation for the majority of the factories. Robots works tirelessly for free and at extreme accuracy and consistency without any breaks like bathroom/smoke or lunches.

There are plenty of jobs that doesnít need to be in a factory. Jobs that engages the mind like construction, remodel, landscaping, automotive repair, green jobs (solar and wind generator installs and repairs), and so on that are varied and enjoyable. Factory work is rather boring with repetitive tasks all day long. It can turn your mind to mush. Leave it to the robots. I mean you ever seen one of Charlie Chaplinís scenes where he works in a factory doing the same task over and over all day long. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGs2Y5WJ14
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 01:09:27 AM » Author: tolivac
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power-Solar and wind is just too sporadic as a steady power supply.Those are GREAT for battery charging or other small uses.Hydro-gravity power is the ONLY alternative "green" power source that really works.Make more use of it!And there is a problem with large solar farms-the panels cover the landscape so it can't be used for anything else-and after 5-10 yrs the panels are putting out from 10-20 percent less power.And disposal of spent panels can be a problem.Landfills don't want them-and they are difficult to recycle.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 11:55:18 AM » Author: FGS
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power-Solar and wind is just too sporadic as a steady power supply.Those are GREAT for battery charging or other small uses.Hydro-gravity power is the ONLY alternative "green" power source that really works.Make more use of it!And there is a problem with large solar farms-the panels cover the landscape so it can't be used for anything else-and after 5-10 yrs the panels are putting out from 10-20 percent less power.And disposal of spent panels can be a problem.Landfills don't want them-and they are difficult to recycle.

No one has said anything about solar and wind power replacing nuclear or coal power. As for landscaping. Put them on roofs of buildings. No one uses the roofs for anything else but keep the elements out of the living/work spaces so might as well put solar panels on there.

The large scale solar farms are mostly in deserts. Since deserts are scarcely populated so landscaping is not an issue.


Engineers, designers, planners, artists, draftsmen, and the list goes on. What are you talking about "nothing much went on back then"? Did you forget about the small towns that relied on their factories? The summer jobs for the teens? The tax base for the towns. You know, the insignificant stuff like that which means a lot to rural America.

The engineering, designing and such can stay in the USA as is it with iPhones (designed in California, made in China.) The actual making of the things can be elsewhere since itís likely if the making DO come back here itíll be mostly automated. So all the factories might as well bring back the pollution and traffic.

Summer jobs for the teens? Retail and landscaping. Iím sure there are others but I canít think of one right now. Manufacturing isnít the only source of summer jobs. Besides what make you think insurance companies would allow factories to hire minors to work there?

Going green is another farce if the PC space cadets. Look at how much Solyndra cost the taxpayers before it went "belly up". Look at the thousands of bald eagles the wind turbines kill every year. The PVC greenie liberals hand pick what they want to be broadcast and they cover up the real facts with propaganda.

You mean like Exxon Valdezís oil spill in the 80s or the BPís Deepwaterís spill late 2000s killing countless of wildlife in the oceans? Or the coal mining tearing down mountain tops in West Virginia and its polluted waters, not to mention miners getting lung cancers from the dust or killed in cave ins?

Solyndra isnít the only company that can make solar panels and related hardware. Thatís like saying SpaceX is the only space faring rocket manufacturer. At least my tax money went to try and improve the world and the lives of other people. No one died when that company went belly up. Which is far better than what a huge chunk of my tax money is going. Making/using war stuff to see out young American citizens crippled/killed in senseless wars*. They likely took what went wrong with Solyndra and made sure it doesnít happen again.

*Most of the recent wars is not for democracy or helping other countries fight off their tyrannical governments. The reason we went to wars is for the black gold. Case in point, North Korea. Itís as tyrannical as they get if not the top one but we havenít ďfreedĒ it like we did Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. North Korea doesnít have petroleum reservoirs under it.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 03:52:23 PM by FGS » Logged

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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 12:32:30 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
Companies will manufacture products where it's cheapest to do, be it China or Africa. If they will have to move the production to somewhere where the cost of labour or other production fees are higher that will mean the retail price of the product has to go up to cover the rising expenses.

If Iphones would be completely made in America, they wouldn't be selling it for the price they do now. Same goes for other products as well. We nowadays have countless ridiculously cheaper products (good and bad quality) to buy because there are still countries where it's cheaper to hire someone to do the boring, mind killing manual factory work than get a machine to do it.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 06:49:26 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power
Though I don't see what this has to do with Trump's idiotic tariffs (it won't be China paying those, it will be YOU and, me, and everyone else who buys anything in the US.)

On Solar/Wind power... replace coal: no, supplement: yes.
Fact is, with electronic/electric devices (and especially if electric cars become even somewhat common) the use of electricity will only continue to grow. More generation capability will be needed, so rather than build another gas or coal (or even worse nuke) plant, put in solar & wind farms. I personally don't see coal/etc-fired plants going away within my lifetime.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 11:52:19 PM » Author: tolivac
The solar farm folks are bullying farmers in my area for their land to put the solar farms on.The intense bullying is something I detest.and the land IS NOT useable for farming when covered with the solar panels.and the solar power company dumps the equipment on the farmer-so at the end of its useful life the landholder has to dispose of the equipment-the panels and their mounts-this gets EXPENSIVE!!!Remember the landfills here won't take the panels and they can't be easily recycled.Sometimes the landowners have a difficult time saying "no".Now at least with windmills the land around them still could be used for other purposes.I am not a fan of these techs because they are expensive-take up too much space-unsightly,and in the case of the windmills pose a hazard to mirating birds-and the best place for these mills in in the birds flyways!also folks don't like the whooshing sounds from the windmill blades.These techs should be replaced by reopening updated coal plants and gas turbine-thermal plants-the exhaust from the gas turnbine heats water to make steam to run a steam turbine-turning another generator.Also we need more hydro plants.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 04:45:04 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: tolivac
The solar farm folks are bullying farmers in my area for their land to put the solar farms on.
That seems like totally the wrong place to put solar. To me, out in the desert is a good place since the land isn't useable for much. And an even better place is the rooftops of city buildings (a space that is basically totally useless), plus in the city the power generated doesn't have to be transmitted long distances (so no line-loss)


Quote
Also we need more hydro plants. 
That can only be a very regional thing, allot of areas there isn't the rivers(or proper spot for a dam) to do it. Though I do agree it should be used more where it can.


And another that should be used more (abit one that can only be done in certain locations) is geo-thermal generation.
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