Author Topic: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War.  (Read 751 times)
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USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « on: June 04, 2019, 05:55:01 PM » Author: FGS
Iím sure most of you have heard or seen news of Trump Regime in a trade war with the Chinese government recently. Tariffs on products left and right with both countries doing it. Stuff will inevitably be more costlier than usual as itís us consumers that end up paying for it not the companies that went offshore and such.

What Iím wondering about is rare earth elements for many fluorescent bulbs. Iím sure most of you knows the largest concentration of rare earth ores is in China. Basically Texas or the Middle East of rare earth ores instead of oil. For now China havenít used its trump card and stopped exports of the elements to the West or put hefty tariffs on them. Should I expect fluorescent tubes to be much more expensive once China uses that card and start hoarding tubes whilst theyíre cheap right now?

I know this has politics written all over it but since itís involving lighting stuff the rules say itís fine.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 06:34:37 PM » Author: GE101R
Iím sure most of you have heard or seen news of Trump Regime in a trade war with the Chinese government recently. Tariffs on products left and right with both countries doing it. Stuff will inevitably be more costlier than usual as itís us consumers that end up paying for it not the companies that went offshore and such.

What Iím wondering about is rare earth elements for many fluorescent bulbs. Iím sure most of you knows the largest concentration of rare earth ores is in China. Basically Texas or the Middle East of rare earth ores instead of oil. For now China havenít used its trump card and stopped exports of the elements to the West or put hefty tariffs on them. Should I expect fluorescent tubes to be much more expensive once China uses that card and start hoarding tubes whilst theyíre cheap right now?

I know this has politics written all over it but since itís involving lighting stuff the rules say itís fine.

Better than the Bush/Obama regimes that banned mercury vapor and the silly PC nincompoops that banned creosote poles but ok'd copper arsenic poles that last half as long.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 06:50:56 PM » Author: FGS
Better than the Bush/Obama regimes that banned mercury vapor and the silly PC nincompoops that banned creosote poles but ok'd copper arsenic poles that last half as long.

Last I checked the MV ban happened under Bush not Obama. Google isnít much help on the Creosote. Most are articles from the 80s and last I checked the Obama era went from 2008 to 2016. Nowhere he was president in the 80s. The 80s was Reaganís turn to be president.

Beside this thread isnít talking about bans but about the trade war between Trump Regime and the Chinese government making fluorescent lighting more expensive. Weíd still be able to buy tubes and such. But not for $10 but for $20 or more for a good set of modern tubes.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #3 on: June 04, 2019, 07:24:09 PM » Author: Patrick
I don't know about this time, but it has affected lighting before.  The 700 series T8 lamps remained on the market two years longer than they otherwise would have, due to rare earth prices, largely a consequence of China's export restrictions.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 08:33:04 AM » Author: Roi_hartmann
Are these rare earth metals material that you need in led lighting?
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 08:35:47 AM » Author: FGS
Are these rare earth metals material that you need in led lighting?

And fluorescent bulbs. Not to mention countless smartphones and computers.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 08:52:58 AM » Author: FGS
I don't know about this time, but it has affected lighting before.  The 700 series T8 lamps remained on the market two years longer than they otherwise would have, due to rare earth prices, largely a consequence of China's export restrictions.

I thought it was more or less along the line of the 700s being the cheaper ďBasicĒ and the 800 and above were the ďPremiumĒ of T8s. People being cheap therefore the 700s were more common so manufacturers kept it going.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 02:23:12 PM » Author: GE101R
Last I checked the MV ban happened under Bush not Obama. Google isnít much help on the Creosote. Most are articles from the 80s and last I checked the Obama era went from 2008 to 2016. Nowhere he was president in the 80s. The 80s was Reaganís turn to be president.

Beside this thread isnít talking about bans but about the trade war between Trump Regime and the Chinese government making fluorescent lighting more expensive. Weíd still be able to buy tubes and such. But not for $10 but for $20 or more for a good set of modern tubes.

Oh yea, the 327 billion trade deficit that we have with Communist China. I gotcha...
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 03:29:08 PM » Author: FGS
Oh yea, the 327 billion trade deficit that we have with Communist China. I gotcha...

Iím not sure how exactly the trades we do with other countries work. I figure it as hiring a general contractor to build a house for $327,000.00 and the guy/company didnít pay for that house once itís built ending up in a $327,000.00 deficit. If thatís the case then itís on the companies that went offshore and hired Chinese factories that are responsible not the Chinese nor the American government (even Trumpís). Unless itís more than that.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #9 on: June 05, 2019, 03:35:42 PM » Author: GE101R
Iím not sure how exactly the trades we do with other countries work. I figure it as hiring a general contractor to build a house for $327,000.00 and the guy/company didnít pay for that house once itís built ending up in a $327,000.00 deficit. If thatís the case then itís on the companies that went offshore and hired Chinese factories that are responsible not the Chinese nor the American government (even Trumpís). Unless itís more than that.

It's been going on and getting worse for the last two decades. It needs to stop and if we must place tariff's on imports such as our forefather's did then so be it. Yes, it is the greed companies looking for the cheap slave wage labor and they need to be reigned in. If we ever did get in a war with one of them and they cut us off on items such as the rare earth minerals, we would be up the creek without a paddle. We need to be self sufficient again...IMO
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 03:44:06 PM » Author: FGS
It's been going on and getting worse for the last two decades. It needs to stop and if we must place taroff's on imports such as our forefather's did then so be it. Yes, it is the greed companies looking for the cheap slave wage labor and they need to be reigned in. If we ever did get in a war with one of the m and THEM they cut us off on items such as the rare earth minerals, we would be up the creek without a paddle. We need to be self sufficient again...IMO

They need us like we need them. I mean if they cut us off. How are they gonna pay the workers for those factories? I mean if workers arenít getting paid theyíre not putting food on the table and things will get ugly. Far East version of the Arab Spring and the Chinese government doesnít want that.

Kind of like the mutually assured destruction we had with the USSR in the Cold War. We want cheap stuff from China so we donít pick a fight with China. They want to keep the workers paid and happy and not revolting against their government so they donít want to pick a fight with us. Trump is a wild card so no one knows exactly whatís gonna happen about it. Will we keep at peace relying on each other as usual or will we start getting ugly and cut each other off making stuff more expensive for everyone involved?
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 04:20:02 PM » Author: GE101R
They need us like we need them. I mean if they cut us off. How are they gonna pay the workers for those factories? I mean if workers arenít getting paid theyíre not putting food on the table and things will get ugly. Far East version of the Arab Spring and the Chinese government doesnít want that.

Kind of like the mutually assured destruction we had with the USSR in the Cold War. We want cheap stuff from China so we donít pick a fight with China. They want to keep the workers paid and happy and not revolting against their government so they donít want to pick a fight with us. Trump is a wild card so no one knows exactly whatís gonna happen about it. Will we keep at peace relying on each other as usual or will we start getting ugly and cut each other off making stuff more expensive for everyone involved?
yp return
We did fine without them before. I would really like our factories in the small towns to return as well as our manufacturing base where people could get work and towns could get their tax base. I remember three full pages of employment ads in every Sunday paper. Some things evolve for the best but this is not one of them. China is NOT our friend and neither is Russia.  IMO
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 07:17:00 PM » Author: FGS
We did fine without them before. I would really like our factories in the small towns to return as well as our manufacturing base where people could get work and towns could get their tax base. I remember three full pages of employment ads in every Sunday paper. Some things evolve for the best but this is not one of them. China is NOT our friend and neither is Russia.  IMO

We didnít have much variety of stuff back then. I mean cell phones and so on didnít exist at the time we decided to open up with China.

What makes you think factories coming back here would bring jobs back? If anything theyíll go full automation for the majority of the factories. Robots works tirelessly for free and at extreme accuracy and consistency without any breaks like bathroom/smoke or lunches.

There are plenty of jobs that doesnít need to be in a factory. Jobs that engages the mind like construction, remodel, landscaping, automotive repair, green jobs (solar and wind generator installs and repairs), and so on that are varied and enjoyable. Factory work is rather boring with repetitive tasks all day long. It can turn your mind to mush. Leave it to the robots. I mean you ever seen one of Charlie Chaplinís scenes where he works in a factory doing the same task over and over all day long. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGs2Y5WJ14
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #13 on: June 10, 2019, 11:26:37 PM » Author: GE101R
We didnít have much variety of stuff back then. I mean cell phones and so on didnít exist at the time we decided to open up with China.

What makes you think factories coming back here would bring jobs back? If anything theyíll go full automation for the majority of the factories. Robots works tirelessly for free and at extreme accuracy and consistency without any breaks like bathroom/smoke or lunches.

There are plenty of jobs that doesnít need to be in a factory. Jobs that engages the mind like construction, remodel, landscaping, automotive repair, green jobs (solar and wind generator installs and repairs), and so on that are varied and enjoyable. Factory work is rather boring with repetitive tasks all day long. It can turn your mind to mush. Leave it to the robots. I mean you ever seen one of Charlie Chaplinís scenes where he works in a factory doing the same task over and over all day long. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGs2Y5WJ14

Engineers, designers, planners, artists, draftsmen, and the list goes on. What are you talking about "nothing much went on back then"? Did you forget about the small towns that relied on their factories? The summer jobs for the teens? The tax base for the towns. You know, the insignificant stuff like that which means a lot to rural America.
Going green is another farce if the PC space cadets. Look at how much Solyndra cost the taxpayers before it went "belly up". Look at the thousands of bald eagles the wind turbines kill every year. The PC greenie liberals hand pick what they want to be broadcast and they cover up the real facts with propaganda.
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Re: USA vs Chinaís asinine Trade War. « Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 01:09:27 AM » Author: tolivac
Solar and wind WILL NOT replace coal and nuke power-Solar and wind is just too sporadic as a steady power supply.Those are GREAT for battery charging or other small uses.Hydro-gravity power is the ONLY alternative "green" power source that really works.Make more use of it!And there is a problem with large solar farms-the panels cover the landscape so it can't be used for anything else-and after 5-10 yrs the panels are putting out from 10-20 percent less power.And disposal of spent panels can be a problem.Landfills don't want them-and they are difficult to recycle.
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