Do modern Incandescent bulbs have lead in the solder? Particularly those from China and Hungary.   

I'd guess the Hungary ones dont, the China ones you can never know. Try to melt it with a soldering iron and see how it behaves

Lead was phased out in virtually all incandescent lamps back in 2009 under the RoHS directive (Restriction of Hazardous Substances).  Getting rid of this from the solder was fairly easy so even the Chinese quickly adopted this - especially as lead-free solders tend to be cheaper and helped to reduce lamp costs.  However eliminating the lead from the glass was much more difficult and required major changes in production processes, a few unscrupulous suppliers outside EU may still be using this on a small scale.

There are a couple of exceptions.  Lead is still permitted (and used) in the solder of lamps used in high ambient temperatures, such as incandescent oven lamps and some HID types.  It is also permitted in the special glass of Circline fluorescents since lead-free glass cannot be bent into a ring of such small diameter.  Suntanning lamps are also still permitted to use lead iodide fillings as other elements do not radiate the necessary wavelengths, and there are a couple of lead-containing phosphors which have not yet been possible to replace.

Fortunately, I still have a large reel of leaded solder, the lead-free stuff is horrible to work with, especially on printed circuit boards. As long as you take care with ventilation you shouldn't have any problems, I'm still here after 50+ years of using the stuff, anyway  

Lead was phased out in virtually all incandescent lamps back in 2009 under the RoHS directive (Restriction of Hazardous Substances).  Getting rid of this from the solder was fairly easy so even the Chinese quickly adopted this - especially as lead-free solders tend to be cheaper and helped to reduce lamp costs.  However eliminating the lead from the glass was much more difficult and required major changes in production processes, a few unscrupulous suppliers outside EU may still be using this on a small scale.

There are a couple of exceptions.  Lead is still permitted (and used) in the solder of lamps used in high ambient temperatures, such as incandescent oven lamps and some HID types.  It is also permitted in the special glass of Circline fluorescents since lead-free glass cannot be bent into a ring of such small diameter.  Suntanning lamps are also still permitted to use lead iodide fillings as other elements do not radiate the necessary wavelengths, and there are a couple of lead-containing phosphors which have not yet been possible to replace.

Why would it be necessary to phase out the use of leaded solder in a fully automated process, and wouldn't leaded solder used at high ambient temperatures be more prone to failure.? 

Thanks everyone.

So would semi name brands like Industrial Performance, Norman lamps, Bulbrite and GE Hungary be lead free?

I don't have a soldering iron so I can't tell.

Why would it be necessary to phase out the use of leaded solder in a fully automated process, and wouldn't leaded solder used at high ambient temperatures be more prone to failure.?  

The euctectic (it does not have to be only the PbSn, but I'm not aware about any other eutectic mix used for soldering) uses to be the most stable in crystal structure, so most robust against fatique cracks or similar failures. But most of that was solved by mounting techniques (strictly no load on soldered joints,...) and solder alloy development (additives making it more robust, even when not an eutectic) and soldering process control (temperature profiling,...), so properly designed product (include its manufacture process) should not suffer from it.


The lead ban came mainly as a response to people being messy morons, throwing EOL stuff into landfills instead of proper recycling.
Manufacture in a safe manner is manageable, as well as the recycling, handling dangerous stuff makes it just a bit more expensive, but its properties could offset that extra cost (dealing the quality issues, more precise processes to deal with the higher temperatures without damaging things,...).
But with many stuff avoiding its use became bottom line cheaper (e.g. radioactive fills in many lamps got replaced by the use of higher voltage ignitors,...). Plus spent consumables (lamps, starters,...) containing dangerous materials make their disposal more expensive (requires extra handling) on the customer side, so such ptoducts were avoided by the buyers (mainly the commercial ones).
But all that would not require any ban if people would not be such pigs, although the hazardous materials would be phased out anyway...

Do modern Incandescent bulbs have lead in the solder? Particularly those from China and Hungary.  

Hungarian lamps don't have Lead (Pb) because in EU Pb is forbiden in soldering because of it's toxicity.For Chinese bulbs i think they want to save money by reducing or not using Pb.

So its safe to say the Chinese bulbs don't have it? 

Whats wrong with Chinese bulbs? 

Whats wrong with Chinese bulbs? 

Unlike tradditional western companies, they have no problem to deliver dangerous goods if it means the cost saving the customer ask.

The thing is, if some laic customer ask for ridiculously cheap price, western engineer just says "no" when it is not possible without sacrificing safety or bare minimum quality level. But the eastern mentality does not allow to just say "no", so they come up with something what fits into the budget, even when it means it becomes unsafe, or extremely bad quality.

Now traditional western customer is expected to ask even for extreme, relying on the expert to "send him away" when it would mean compromising safety or basic quality, so then converge to something reasonable.
But because of the mentality, the easterners just deliver what the customer asks, expecting the customer will never ask for something unrealistic, so upfront assumes his customer really wants that low safety/quality standard.
Some learned these cultural differences (Japan, Korea) and adopt their assumptions when dealing with western customers, some (mainly China) not yet (or are proud enough to expect the westerners to adopt their style - and that is happening only slowly and not that long).

Unlike tradditional western companies, they have no problem to deliver dangerous goods if it means the cost saving the customer ask.

The thing is, if some laic customer ask for ridiculously cheap price, western engineer just says "no" when it is not possible without sacrificing safety or bare minimum quality level. But the eastern mentality does not allow to just say "no", so they come up with something what fits into the budget, even when it means it becomes unsafe, or extremely bad quality.

Now traditional western customer is expected to ask even for extreme, relying on the expert to "send him away" when it would mean compromising safety or basic quality, so then converge to something reasonable.
But because of the mentality, the easterners just deliver what the customer asks, expecting the customer will never ask for something unrealistic, so upfront assumes his customer really wants that low safety/quality standard.
Some learned these cultural differences (Japan, Korea) and adopt their assumptions when dealing with western customers, some (mainly China) not yet (or are proud enough to expect the westerners to adopt their style - and that is happening only slowly and not that long).

Most Chinese people don't care about quality. Unless a perception of quality denotes wealth (example, Chinese like BMW, but they can't tell you why they like BMW)

Chinese business people will negotiate a tight contract that they know was too low of a price, then when production begins, they will "cut corners" on raw material purity, omit certain raw materials, etc. to get back their slight profit margin.

Western customers treat Chinese manufacturers like dogs. They pit them against each other for lowest price possible, then they give no credit or allow the factory name to be placed on product, therefore the factory/manufacturer can not establish a reputation for quality, therefore there is no reason to have much quality.

Chinese factories/manufacturers get paid when the cargo container arrives at port and is inspected. So, manufacturers cut corners only on things that won't get noticed until after payment:
they use adulterated components for plastics, this is why you see Chinese plastics turning yellow or blue over time and cracking
same goes for rubber components, this is why many parts become goo after a while
They use wire with under-sized conductor but fat insulation to appear correct gauge, but is in fact much thinner copper than needed

Both sides are guilty for poor quality Chinese products. It seems Western companies have been trying very hard to prevent ANOTHER Asian country from establishing competitive name brands. Western companies almost always hide their Chinese manufacturers, and you can't find many ACTUAL Chinese companies in the West. I only know of Haier, personally. The few Chinese companies with weird names on Amazon still produce poor quality because it is their habit.
I feel western companies don't want another Sony, Honda, Samsung company popping up out of China, and they've done a good job preventing that. ANd, Chinese people don't really care as much about quality as their Asian neighbors do.

Some time back i have met engineers from one of the Israeli luminaire manufacturers (one we know well in Israel and have big appearance in my collection. No, not Gaash) and they shared with me a story

This manufacturer made many types of luminaires for the business/enterprise markets - Exactly the sort of "common FL and HID luminaires with names" we like to collect. Everything sheet metal they were manufacturing themselves, but everything with moulded body (aluminum or plastic) they were buying empty shells from others and only assembling in their own gear trays

Back in the 80s they used to buy good shells - I have here some of their weather packs from 1984, which are made of Thorn shell + their own tray and gear. They are in near showroom condition (other than the soot on the tray) after working every workday for the last 30 years. That gradually changed to what they were doing from the mid 00's onwards - Buying the shells from cheap manufacturers in China, still putting in their own trays

The story here is about the very common "Wallpack" style luminaire for 150W SON lamp, with body of injection moulded Aluminum and prismatic Holophane-like glass cover. Or more specifically, about the early attempts to make their "homebrew" LED version in the same body

So they order the empty shells from the Chinese manufacturer. All look good - no visible defects. Rated IP65. They put together the insides and put it to testing, including hosing it with water to check the sealing. The thing leaks instantly

They call the shell manufacturer that there is a problem, the luminaires are not sealed. The chinese manufacturer have hard time to understand what is the actual problem. The luminaire leaks ? OK. Did they order the IP65 rated body ? OK. Don't see what's the problem

It took some fair bit of dialog with the shell manufacturer, until the Chinese guys finally got what the complaint is about :

"Oh, you mean you wanted not IP65 but REAL IP65 ?"



Overall, this can turn in different ways in different cases. And there are many examples for either outcome, both with Chinese manufacturers that are or aren't allowed to put their own name on the final product

Some time back i have met engineers from one of the Israeli luminaire manufacturers (one we know well in Israel and have big appearance in my collection. No, not Gaash) and they shared with me a story

This manufacturer made many types of luminaires for the business/enterprise markets - Exactly the sort of "common FL and HID luminaires with names" we like to collect. Everything sheet metal they were manufacturing themselves, but everything with moulded body (aluminum or plastic) they were buying empty shells from others and only assembling in their own gear trays

Back in the 80s they used to buy good shells - I have here some of their weather packs from 1984, which are made of Thorn shell + their own tray and gear. They are in near showroom condition (other than the soot on the tray) after working every workday for the last 30 years. That gradually changed to what they were doing from the mid 00's onwards - Buying the shells from cheap manufacturers in China, still putting in their own trays

The story here is about the very common "Wallpack" style luminaire for 150W SON lamp, with body of injection moulded Aluminum and prismatic Holophane-like glass cover. Or more specifically, about the early attempts to make their "homebrew" LED version in the same body

So they order the empty shells from the Chinese manufacturer. All look good - no visible defects. Rated IP65. They put together the insides and put it to testing, including hosing it with water to check the sealing. The thing leaks instantly

They call the shell manufacturer that there is a problem, the luminaires are not sealed. The chinese manufacturer have hard time to understand what is the actual problem. The luminaire leaks ? OK. Did they order the IP65 rated body ? OK. Don't see what's the problem

It took some fair bit of dialog with the shell manufacturer, until the Chinese guys finally got what the complaint is about :

"Oh, you mean you wanted not IP65 but REAL IP65 ?"



Overall, this can turn in different ways in different cases. And there are many examples for either outcome, both with Chinese manufacturers that are or aren't allowed to put their own name on the final product

Did they start sending "REAL IP65" shells or did they have to switch suppliers?

Well, the IP65 actually allows the water to go in, assuming it is in harmless manner.
While the "may go in" part is rather clear, the "harmless manner" depends what is within the shell. So if it was originally designed for a HID, it could be some temporary water level may have developed on the enclosure floor so be harmless for the HID system sitting cm's above that so the thing would be genuine IP65, if someone places there a LED board from edge to edge, such board become soaked in water, so the whole thing woul definitely not be IP65, although sharing exactly the same enclosure.

So to be honest, although the case was clearly not the best in class, it really counds to me as a typical misunderstanding case:

Maker displays some lanterns, likely incandescent or HID, rated IP65.
Western buyer sees them, like the look and price for the cases, so want to buy them for the LED use.
Chineese man knoes they reached the IP65 only because everything was far from bottom, but knows it may not be the case for LEDs. But can not say "no", so takes assumption the buyer will find a way around, so it will be his responsibility.
Then the buyer comes back, complaining. The Chineese is in the corner, so spills some blahblah BS about a "real IP65", just to please the customer. Remember, he can not say "no" (as that is assumed as extremely rude towards a boss or a customer there; and telling about the unsuitability is just a way of saying "no").

Western seller wont have any objection against saying "no, it wont suit your use", because opposite to the eastern culture, it is seen a form of honesty (and not runeness or an insult as it is in the far east).