Hi all

I am wondering, do you really hate LED's? Or is it how they're being used that you don't like, e.g. sometimes being used where other light sources would be more appropriate, or replacing perfectly working older lighting just "because LED"?

Here's my view: I love LEDs. They are fantastic and IMHO an ideal solution for lighting in many situations, especially replacing incandescents in traditional household locations. But yes, I have witnessed many situations where LEDs have been used inappropriately e.g. over-bright glaring fixtures being used or just plain crap fixtures that have failed prematurely.

So, do you really hate LEDs themselves, and if so, why?

Hi all

I am wondering, do you really hate LED's? Or is it how they're being used that you don't like, e.g. sometimes being used where other light sources would be more appropriate, or replacing perfectly working older lighting just "because LED"?

Here's my view: I love LEDs. They are fantastic and IMHO an ideal solution for lighting in many situations, especially replacing incandescents in traditional household locations. But yes, I have witnessed many situations where LEDs have been used inappropriately e.g. over-bright glaring fixtures being used or just plain crap fixtures that have failed prematurely.

So, do you really hate LEDs themselves, and if so, why?

I don't hate LED light bulbs and stuff like that, I actually like them and use them. However, what I DO hate is when I see perfectly fine HID installations being scrapped just for dim LED lights that only last 6 months before the light output is so dim you can barely see.

Treating LED as the end all, be all light source for everything

Using LED where other lighting technologies make more sense or perform better in ways relevant for the application

The spectrum of "White" LEDs, where this matters (most general lighting applications)

Deceiving ratings, particularly "X Watt LED = " type, where the Lumens might be half or less compared to the reference

The design of many LED lights. Yep, i could do those LEDs better



What i'd like to see instead :

LED is one more lighting technology, not universally better or universally worse than anything else

LEDs are :
 - Efficient light source down to very low wattages
 - Instant ON, fully dimmable
 - White light, but the worst of all other White light sources
 - Eye strain in long exposure and potential health hazard

Using LED where appropriate, which is especially in the low power sizes - Supplementary and accent lighting, frequent switching, similar applications

LEDs designed properly for those applications (e.g. spotlight), not for inappropriate applications (e.g. road luminaire), not as "retrofit to everything" (e.g. LED tubes in Fluorescent sizes)

LEDs rated by their performance (Lumens, beam angle), not as equivalent of other light sources

LEDs rated by their performance (Lumens, beam angle), not as equivalent of other light sources

The equivalence thing is so the homeowner can buy a bulb that'd match the old bulb they're replacing. They grew up by knowing how bright the incandescent bulbs are for wherever they want them by the wattage ratings not the lumens so not many homeowners knows how many lumens a given wattage is rated for. Hence this 800lm LED bulb is equivalent to a 60w bulb on the boxes.

The equivalent thing didn't start with LEDs. They started with self ballasted CFLs. 13w is equivalent to 60w. LEDs simply picked up where CFLs left off in terms of package labeling.

Unless you meant the HID fixture equivalent thing. I think those should be rated by how much lux is on the surface for a given fixture's height or distance. (For commercial installations. The installer is likely to know the lux ratings for the HID fixtures or know where to check to compare.)

Sizing lamps by power started with Incandescents, at the time when they were the only viable light source for most applications

I can think of few reasons :

The output of the very first Incandescents was rated in Candle equivalent - CP units. As a candle flame is relatively similar between different candles, this could be used as a unit of light output for the average Joe

But then, the Joe was thinking of it as a unit of power (drawing similarity to the Horse Power unit) and not of light

The efficacy of filament lamps used to be quite uniform, and at some point around 10 Lm/W, so the light output in multiples of 10 Lm is equal in numbers to the lamp power in Watts. The unit of DLm was then used for the output rating, but since the number was equal to the Watts, Joe thought it is the same

Incandescent lamps run hot, and often bring luminaires to their thermal limits. So luminaires are, legitimately, rated for the max lamp size they can handle in Watts and not in Lumens



The rating of lamps by equivalent to other lamps started with cfls MAYBE (probably not, but the previous times were too far ago for peeps to remember). But the whole concept of rating of light output by Watts should have died like 100 years ago, the day when the next lamp type after the Incandescent was invented

It was bad with the CFLs and is not any better with the LEDs

For the most part LED is great for PORTABLE lighting.Not so good as HID replacement.The LED technology needs to mature more.At where I work flourescent bulbs have been replaced with the LED conversion lamps.These do work-will have to see how long they last-There is a pallet of LED 2X2 ceiling lights to replace the 2X2 flourescent ones.These are Tech Brite fixtures and another pallet of Lifebulb conversion bulbs.The AEL outdoor lot parking area lights are working fine-along with the GE Evolve lights in our switchbay adn substation areas.The GE Evolve lights have the wird blue color-the AEL lights are warm color-much better-but the HID repalcements do have glare-the old mercury lights didn't have that.Think the AEL lights glare issue could have been fixed with the diffuser lenses like what was on the older lights.Figure the new lights will be installed after the holidays.Will see how these work.

I don't hate LEDs in general (There are applications that they are good like indicators and flashlight, as well as emergency lighting, traffic lights and ad signs of all types, and nightlights [Mainly red and amber LEDs]), but general LED lighting and the ways that they put in the LEDs to the market as a perfect energy saving for all forms of traditional lighting, I hate.
I hate the fact that LED lighting mentioned not where it should be mentioned like in the future light rail of Gush Dan , and in a past article at Yediot Aharonot about the Skate Park near Hecht Park. And of course the use of product placements and misleading information.
I also hate the fact that companies closes factories of traditional lighting, and transforming from lighting companies to LED companies like happened with Gaash Lighting and Shtainitz Lirad (They were lighting companies, and now they sells/manufacturing mostly LED [Gaash mostly, as they have still HID and T5, Shtainitz Lirad 100% LED]).
I also hate the respone of the israeli society and media to the LED.

I don't hate LEDs, and I think they work well in many cases. What I don't like, though, are poorly-designed lamps/fixtures that have lots of glare, don't last anywhere near their rated life, are too dim to replace what they claim to be able to replace, and/or produce a poor light color. I also hate seeing cool, vintage fluorescent and HID installations replaced with LED, but that's more the fault of the property owners than the LED manufacturers. Finally, I don't like the fact that most LED fixtures aren't designed to be user-serviceable.

As has already been mentioned on this thread, the problem is with major derps in the design of LED fixtures and idiots with no understanding of technological limitations pushing nonsense.  LEDs are fine when implemented properly in applications where they make sense.

Yes I really hate LEDs because they have horrible glare are a stark white light can sometimes have a notable flicker they cause RFI and are forced on us by eco nut greenbrainers

Yes I really hate LEDs because they have horrible glare are a stark white light can sometimes have a notable flicker they cause RFI and are forced on us by eco nut greenbrainers

ALL of the LED bulbs/fixtures made out there?

Yeah hate them all!!

Yes I really hate LEDs because they have horrible glare are a stark white light can sometimes have a notable flicker they cause RFI and are forced on us by eco nut greenbrainers

Badly designed LED fixtures can create glare and flicker yes.

Not sure about the white light thing? LEDs can generate a huge range of colours/colour temperatures with the correct phosphors and good design work.

Yes I do hate the way LEDs are marketed!

Light from White LEDs (except RGB types) is the worst a White light can be while we still see it as White. This have nothing to do with the shade or color temperature, but with the light composition : Legendary amounts of Blue and equally legendary amounts of Orange to balance it out, nothing else in there

	incandescent	halogen	MV clear	MV/MBF	HPS/SON	MH	fluorescent	CFL	LED
good cri	1	1	0	0	0	1	1	1	1
very high cri available	1	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	1
colour temperature variety	0	0	0	1	0	1	1	0	1
native colour versions available	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	1
instant start into full brightness	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
instant "restrike" after turning off	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	1	1
dimmable	1	1	0	0	1	1	1	1	1
high efficacy	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	0	1
long life (10,000+ hrs.) standard	0	0	1	1	1	1	1	0	1
extreme life (50,000+ hrs.) available	0	0	1	1	1	0	1	0	1
high reliability	1	0	1	1	1	0	1	0	0
resistent to frequent switchings	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1
doesn't cycle	1	1	1	1	0	0	1	1	1
glare free	0	0	0	1	0	0	1	1	0
can be used in reflectors	1	1	1	0	1	1	0	0	1
ambient temperature resistant	1	1	1	1	1	1	0	0	0
environmental unfriendly chemicals free	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
can't explode	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	1

This overview is extremely simplified and some borderline values can be perceived differently.
Make your own table if you see particular values differently. Include your own criteria.
I'm not a LED evangelist but I simply don't see why still hate them in 2017. They're just a light source with its pros and cons. Fullstop.