Author Topic: Where can I get good terminal blocks?  (Read 8300 times)
LightsDelight
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #15 on: February 01, 2020, 12:26:07 PM » Author: LightsDelight
Here in Aus we use screw connectors we call blue points and for terminal strips we use some 500V 15A clipsal ones. With BPs you twist the wire into the connector and screw it down, there are the clear ones. For fitting plug tops onto cables we use the grey clipsal terminal strips.
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #16 on: February 02, 2020, 12:41:47 AM » Author: 589
I've looked at the WAGO connectors, and I can't see any way of fastening them to a lamp board permanently which is what we need.  :-\

So we will stick with traditional choc blocs. :)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-SJ4575-Profile-Reclosable-Fastener/dp/B005SIJY1A

This will do the trick nicely. It’s not your daddy’s Velcro. It locks stuff down solid like glue, but is removable. I use it and it’s heavy duty big brother all the time. (you can buy it anywhere you want, not just AZ ;)  )
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #17 on: February 02, 2020, 01:29:19 AM » Author: joseph_125
I believe Wago makes snap in mounting brackets for use with their connectors that have screw holes to fasten them down. You might have to order them as they don't seem to be a commonly used product. Maybe going with the traditional terminal blocks are a better bet.

That heavy duty velcro looks interesting, I've been looking for a stronger alternative to regular velcro.
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #18 on: February 02, 2020, 07:24:59 AM » Author: 589
I like it better than regular Velcro for mounting pieces of gear to various objects since it solidly holds whatever you’ve attached it to. It is also not gender specific so no need to worry about using up one type over the other. One rub about it though is the two mating surfaces must be totally flat for it to hold properly. But if they are it sometimes requires a screwdriver to pry it apart in the case of the heavy duty!
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Ash
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #19 on: February 04, 2020, 01:38:01 PM » Author: Ash
Wago's are not really meant for this. If you want luminaire type connectors (mountable push in) check out manufacturers of lighting components

https://www.electroterminal.com/products/ca/producttype/show/t/screw-and-screwless-connectors/
https://www.electroterminal.com/products/ca/producttype/show/t/screwless-luminaire-connectors/
https://www.aagstucchi.it/products/category/168/
https://www.aagstucchi.it/products/category/169/
http://wecoconnectors.com/products_list.php?c1=5&c2=14
https://www.bjb.com/de/klemmen-und-verbindungselemente?p=1
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Alex
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #20 on: February 04, 2020, 01:56:28 PM » Author: Alex
For using in house installation I would always use proper Wago connectors. Not some from china as those meltdown often when the heated current flows. The Wago connectors are avail up to 8 Wire inputs. I would also prefer them much more then Wirenuts as they are ways safer. For Connecting fast some wir you can use the domino typ screw terminal blocks. For use in lights and on Ballast I recommend using ceramic based ones.
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #21 on: February 04, 2020, 02:01:51 PM » Author: sox35
I quite like those push-in luminaire connectors, we have those fitted in our Thorn 2D fixtures. It's easy to remove a wire, which isn't always so easy on the usual push-in type. But I still prefer the proper choc blocks. I've just got some porcelain ones to use on our lamp boards.
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #22 on: February 04, 2020, 02:08:11 PM » Author: Alex
I quite like those push-in luminaire connectors, we have those fitted in our Thorn 2D fixtures. It's easy to remove a wire, which isn't always so easy on the usual push-in type. But I still prefer the proper choc blocks. I've just got some porcelain ones to use on our lamp boards.

The Problem on these is that after several use they partly use friction on the Conductor. Als Flexible conductors must be crimp properly as there is a risk of not taking all cores int to the connector. On the Bloc terminal that also is the case. Tinning the leads in none of these cases a lowed as Tin is Moving and won't make any stable and reliable connection.
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #23 on: February 05, 2020, 11:05:08 AM » Author: Medved
For fitting plug tops onto cables we use the grey clipsal terminal strips.

Well, the gray type is used traditionally here, it is nicknamed here as "chocolate bar" (a translation of the "čokoláda" word), because not so long ago it was made of brown bakelite (before the ABS took over as the construction insulator plastic of choice), with the metal parts hidden in the holes it was really looking like that candy...

They do have their problems too: Prone to inserting the wires too deep or too shallow, or using too thin wires so they slip beside the screws (in the type designed for thicker wires), or inserting bend hardened copper wire giving wrong feeling of tightness when in fact the screw was not properly tightened yet so gets loose over time.
Generally quite sensitive to the degree of attention the installer pays to his workmanship and how aware he is about the existence of these problems...
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #24 on: February 05, 2020, 01:59:57 PM » Author: Ash
Wagos (and their equivalents, both the push in and lever nut types) are legendarily overreated by their manufacturers

The contact spot in them (between the wire and the plated copper strip inside) is tiny, since the conductor is not deformed by the connection to make a larger spot (like it is in screw terminals, wire nuts, isolation piercing connectors and most other connectors). This tiny spot is inevitably dissipating more power than straight wire. I think the design relies quite heavily on using the conductor to dissipate the heat....

So they are good for 10A or so (thats where i draw the line). But this pretty much rules out their use in any receptacle circuit, that are atleast 15/16A

Above 10A wire nuts are perfectly safe (if installed correctly), Wagos are not

For connecting stranded conductors in screw terminals, first crimp a plated Copper sleeve (ferrule) on them. Alternatively, there are terminal strips with a guard leaf between the screw and the conductor, that prevents direct friction between the screw end and conductors
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #25 on: February 05, 2020, 02:07:40 PM » Author: sox35
For connecting stranded conductors in screw terminals, first crimp a plated Copper sleeve (ferrule) on them. Alternatively, there are terminal strips with a guard leaf between the screw and the conductor, that prevents direct friction between the screw end and conductors
For what it's worth, I've never once in 50+ years experienced any problems from terminating stranded conductors in screw terminal blocks.
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Ash
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #26 on: February 05, 2020, 02:15:42 PM » Author: Ash
In most screw terminals of the eurostrip (chocolate) type, the screw width does not fill the hole when it is closed down. There is a possibility for some strands to escape from under the screw to the sides, so not make connection themselves and loosen the pressure on the reduced bundle of strands that remained under the screw. Also, some of the screws have quite sharp edge and can severe a few strands when tightened

This problem does not happen in the "lifting box" type of terminals like what's on circuit breakers and DIN rail terminal blocks
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Alex
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #27 on: February 05, 2020, 02:35:15 PM » Author: Alex
I have used the Wago typ connector a lot in the last years and I never hade any problem. I used it in 10A and 20A Light and Sockets circuits and dedicated higher Curren ones in cooker, boiler and low voltage abdications. I just felt on the 20Amp ones at c.10A Load if there is anything warm but I felt nothing.
Wirenuts are been forbidden here if im right some time ago because they were a fire hazard. If that is due to wrong installation or overpowering I don't know. But I don consider them as very save as (at least those I have seen) Didn't hold the connectors tightly and were not able to hold all connectors in in an solid junction.


On Flex it is essential to use wiresleves as as Ash already mentioned they have the possibility to deform the conductor. On fine wires like in flex that willl with a high probability cut them and make the conductor thinner and cause a bad connection what can lead to Arcing and Fire.

In Germany and France it is also so that you have to use on all kind of terminal (Exexption hold on terminal that are dedicated for flex WAGo f. example) this put on crimp sleeves as there is a high risk that a single fine conductor wire is not inserted in the terminal and then is  a smoke hazard.
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #28 on: February 05, 2020, 04:47:28 PM » Author: High Intensity
According to the Wago website, all of the Wago wire connectors are UL listed, while this is not a guaranteed way of saying they're 100% safe at these currents, it does mean that they were tested by a 3rd party and survived at their max current (for extended periods of time if i were to guess). The generics OTOH, have not been tested by anyone and are only saying they can handle their maximum current with no real certification to prove it (other than a fake CE certification marking).
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Re: Where can I get good terminal blocks? « Reply #29 on: February 06, 2020, 02:05:44 PM » Author: Ash
The lab tests do test the initial performance of the connector. But they dont rule out some possible fault scenarios. Here is one for example

You make a connection with Wagos and close them in a connection box. There is damp air around (say in a basement) and the connector is not air tight, so the area of the wire (the stripped part) that isn't the contact spot (so exposed to air), is oxidizing. This is not an area that's making the electrical connection so it doesn't matter

After a few years you open the box and pull the connections out from it for inspection (bend the bundles of wires out, without disconnecting them). The wires can twist around in the terminal when you do that, so lose the original contact spot and turn with an oxidized side towards the busbar

This won't happen in any other connector (that clamps the wire solidly and prevents any movement of it) but can happen with a Wago...

Also, the contact spot is so tiny that i would wonder if it really prevents oxidation under the contact spot itself

Now, unless we are in some extremely corrosive environment, those processes have limited effect, so result in limited rise of resistance. I dont think there is a problem with it at small currents (especially where the wire part close to the connector is an effective heatsink), but at 32A the wire itself (4mm^2, the max that the 32A Wago accepts) with 70C insulation is at its thermal limits, so i very much doubt it would take well to the additional heat conducted from the small contact spot
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